Last Classic Who Story you watched

[diankra]

Even before Nathan-Turner's day, Robert Holmes had decided that four episodes was the 'ideal' length, hence to the shift during his time as script editor from 4-4-6-6-6 to 4-4-4-4-4-6, with the 6 tending to be 4+2: Seeds of Doom is 2+4, Talons shifts focus from Chang to Greel four episodes in [partly because episodes five and six weren't written when production began!], and the Vardans-to-Sontarans shift four episodes into Invasion of Time was his suggestion too (the original script had fallen through; Holmes was asked to write a replacement. He said 'No' as he'd only just left the show, but did donate some story ideas and the Sontarans).
Even Armageddon Factor the next year shifts focus from Atrios in the first two episodes to Zeos for three and four and the Shadow's domain in five and six. And Shada does something similar, or would have done (Cambridge to space to Shada itself)

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Once again, remind kirk5555 that Invasion of Time was not the Sontarans' introduction on OldWho.

 

[DWF]

Even before Nathan-Turner's day, Robert Holmes had decided that four episodes was the 'ideal' length, hence to the shift during his time as script editor from 4-4-6-6-6 to 4-4-4-4-4-6, with the 6 tending to be 4+2: Seeds of Doom is 2+4, Talons shifts focus from Chang to Greel four episodes in [partly because episodes five and six weren't written when production began!], and the Vardans-to-Sontarans shift four episodes into Invasion of Time was his suggestion too (the original script had fallen through; Holmes was asked to write a replacement. He said 'No' as he'd only just left the show, but did donate some story ideas and the Sontarans).
Even Armageddon Factor the next year shifts focus from Atrios in the first two episodes to Zeos for three and four and the Shadow's domain in five and six. And Shada does something similar, or would have done (Cambridge to space to Shada itself)

That was Robert Holmes decision after Genesis Of The Daleks because he felt the longer stories were repetitive Shada and The Armageddon Factor went back to the older style. But I do agree a bit with Holmes, still though the six parters in the Pertwee era were a bit repetitive.

But I do think even the four parters were padded in that many eps. fan under time and padded scenes were often needed to fill out the ep. So there's pluses and minuses to the longer and shorter story lengths

 

[Sindatur]

Even before Nathan-Turner's day, Robert Holmes had decided that four episodes was the 'ideal' length, hence to the shift during his time as script editor from 4-4-6-6-6 to 4-4-4-4-4-6, with the 6 tending to be 4+2: Seeds of Doom is 2+4, Talons shifts focus from Chang to Greel four episodes in [partly because episodes five and six weren't written when production began!], and the Vardans-to-Sontarans shift four episodes into Invasion of Time was his suggestion too (the original script had fallen through; Holmes was asked to write a replacement. He said 'No' as he'd only just left the show, but did donate some story ideas and the Sontarans).
Even Armageddon Factor the next year shifts focus from Atrios in the first two episodes to Zeos for three and four and the Shadow's domain in five and six. And Shada does something similar, or would have done (Cambridge to space to Shada itself)

That was Robert Holmes decision after Genesis Of The Daleks because he felt the longer stories were repetitive Shada and The Armageddon Factor went back to the older style. But I do agree a bit with Holmes, still though the six parters in the Pertwee era were a bit repetitive.

But I do think even the four parters were padded in that many eps. fan under time and padded scenes were often needed to fill out the ep. So there's pluses and minuses to the longer and shorter story lengths

Yea, those are my favorite long Serials, the ones that keep changing focus every 2 - 4 episodes. First full Serial I saw was Seeds of Doom Tom Baker (I'd seen random scenes before that, but, sat and started actually watching with SoD) I do like the long Pertwees, though, and think they mostly did follow this format

 

[kirk55555]

Once again, remind kirk5555 that Invasion of Time was not the Sontarans' introduction on OldWho.

Actually, I realized that earlier. I've watched every 4th Doctor serial up to this point, which includes The Sontaran Experiment, so I have no idea why I completely forgot about them I'm more used to them in NuWho, I guess.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

They all look the same anyway.

Now that I think of it, wouldn't it be interesting if a Doctor Who story dealt with the Sontaran-Rutan war? You know, with Rutans and Sontarans in the same episode?

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Once again, remind kirk5555 that Invasion of Time was not the Sontarans' introduction on OldWho.

Actually, I realized that earlier. I've watched every 4th Doctor serial up to this point, which includes The Sontaran Experiment, so I have no idea why I completely forgot about them I'm more used to them in NuWho, I guess.

Actually, Time Warrior. First story of the Third Doctor without Jo Grant as a companion. Introduced the Sontarans AND Sarah Jane Smith. In a story written by Robert Holmes.

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjxVtI8O2IY[/YT]

 

[kirk55555]

I knew that The Sontaran Experiment wasn't the first Sontaran episode either, I was just mentioning that it was a 4th Doctor serial with them that I'd already seen prior to The Invasion of Time, making my mistake weirder. I haven't gotten to The Time Warrior in y 3rd Doctor watching, but I'd already noticed it was the first Sontaran episode while looking stuff up yesterday.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Its the best Sontaran episode, in my opinion. One of very favorites of Pertwee, too.

 

[diankra]

It's an oddity, the way the Sontarans became a regular monster. The Daleks were brought back due to popularity, the Cybermen because Innes Lloyd was looking out for a replacement for the Daleks, the Ice Warriors and Yeti for much the same reasons. But both Sontaran Experiment and Invasion of Time were last minute replacements for stories that didn't involve the Sontarans, which only brought them back because Robert Holmes thought the costumes were in store and available as a fast fix... After that, they'd become one of the Big Four Monsters in fandom's eyes.

 

[Orac Zen]

Wow, long time no post.

Watched The Keys of Marinus and Colony in Space over the weekend. Enjoyed both of them a great deal. Barbara really was one of the cooler companions, and the Pertwee / Manning / Delgado troika is always great viewing.

I have a few other classic DVDs waiting in the viewing queue. All I need is the time to watch them....

 

[Timewalker]

I didn't like that one, either. Fortunately, most of the stories with Leela are pretty good.

Agreed. Saw Robots of Death previously and that was fun, and today I watched The Horror of Fang Rock, and I found that to be brilliant, even with the giant green jellyfish bad guy.

Robots of Death is one of my favorite Tom Baker stories. I've considered doing some fanfic based on some of the guest characters, exploring their past and future lives (a Doctorless Doctor Who story!).

Also, Leela's reason for leaving was hilarious and not hinted at throughout the whole story, although to be fair she still got a better exit than Liz Shaw or Peri.

Leela's exit makes perfect sense if you think of it not because she had suddenly fallen in love with Andred, but because she became fond of him like a pet and thought he needed taking care of (he was a rather inept guard).

But in actuality, the producers were desperately hoping up to the last minute that Louise Jameson would reconsider quitting, so they hadn't written any plausible story strands that might give Leela a better reason for leaving. That sudden grabbing Andred's hand had to convey a lot of information to the audience in a very short time.

Also, Leela's reason for leaving was hilarious and not hinted at throughout the whole story, although to be fair she still got a better exit than Liz Shaw or Peri.

I dunno. Peri's demise was really creepy & brutal (at least before "The Trial of a Time Lord, Part 14" pointlessly retconned it into a happy ending).

I was glad that King Yrcanos got to marry his beloved "Perpugilliam of the Brown."

 

[DarthPipes]

I just finished the final part of the Black Guardian trilogy, Enlightenment and I have to say I really enjoyed it. I'm starting to get the appeal behind the Turlough character.

 

[DWF]

I just finished the final part of the Black Guardian trilogy, Enlightenment and I have to say I really enjoyed it. I'm starting to get the appeal behind the Turlough character.

I recently finished Enlightenment too and it is a good story, Tulough was an interesting companion to be sure no otehr companion started out to kill the Doctor. The Enternals were an awesome idea and the costumes in the story were great.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Didn't The Master reveal Peri's fate towards the end of Trial Of A Time Lord in episode 13? "She's a queen, married to that warmongering fool Ycarnos" or something like that. The episode is credited to Robert Holmes, although perhaps it was written in by either Saward or the Bakers after his death?


Also regarding Peri's death I think there were tentative plans to have her die in the original season 23, which would force the Sixth Doctor to mend his ways or something like that.

 

[DWF]

Didn't The Master reveal Peri's fate towards the end of Trial Of A Time Lord in episode 13? "She's a queen, married to that warmongering fool Ycarnos" or something like that. The episode is credited to Robert Holmes, although perhaps it was written in by either Saward or the Bakers after his death?


Also regarding Peri's death I think there were tentative plans to have her die in the original season 23, which would force the Sixth Doctor to mend his ways or something like that.

The Master told the court about Peri and the Inquisitor told the Doctor after he returned from teh Matrix. And after Robert Holmes died Eric Saward rewrote the finale, but JNT wasn't happy about the rewriting and the Bakers finally rewrote the 14th ep. part.

 

[diankra]

Yeah... Peri's departure is a mess of different writers/producers changing the idea (and Mindwarp is the story that plays best with 'Is this what happened, or is it faked evidence?' idea. And even then it is a bit of a mess).
The good thing is that it leaves uncertainty for later writers: personally, I think that 'Peri died as a result of body transplant, and that was the end' is the most effective end to her story. But there are some very good stories which follow on from the alternatives.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

There is a novel where Peri returns to earth-"Bad Therapy" by Matt Jones (Who wrote the Impossible planet/Satan pit episodes in season 2). It's one of the later Seventh Doctor New Adventures.

On that note it's interesting how the Sixth Doctor is treated in the New Adventures, he's basically sort of treated like the War Doctor, as a 'bad' incarnation that the others aren't too fond of, or even fear. There's one novel in particular-Head Games I believe-where if I remember correctly,the Sixth is 'ressurected' in the Land Of Fiction and comes to blows with his seventh self. Even some of the Sixth Doctor missing adventures sort of have this attitude. However time has been kinder to Colin Baker/The Sixth Doctor with the Big Finish audios of course.

 

[kirk55555]

Personally, the 7th Doctor always seems the most like the War Doctor. All 6th ever did was be a bit crotchety and full of himself. He never would have treated Peri (or even Mel) like the 7th treated Ace (choking Peri doesn't count as something bad he did because he was basically insane right after regenerating,he never showed the slightest capability of acting like that after he stabilized). There is no real reason he'd be "feared" or "hated" by his other incarnations, except maybe because a writer might be biased against him. Now, I'm definitely biased toward the 6th Doctor, but honestly his "bad" attitude gets blown out of proportion sometimes.

He was an incarnation that was rougher personality wise than some of what came before (although from what little I've seen the 1st Doctor had his moments), but I think that he wasn't as mean as his reputation sometimes makes him out to be, and honestly I've seen Doctor's act just as full of themselves (if not more so), and I've seen Doctor's be ruder, too. 6th may win when it comes to just being argumentative, but I think (even just based on his TV appearances) he was a good man, regardless of what you think of his fashion sense or sometimes rough personality.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Personally, the Sixth Doctor almost didn't have a personality until Big Finish polished him up. While BF certainly followed up on the Caves of Androzani direction for the Fifth in their audios, and the Seventh was pretty established by the time BF began working on him, the Sixth was just a younger version of the First on the show. Twin Dilemma aside, he was just a full-of-himself old man, with a ridiculous outfit to boot.

BF just expanded on him, justifying his behavious as a drastic retooling of himself following the Fifth. But he mellowed over time, mostly due to Evelyn Smythe, returning to his more jovial ways as the Fourth. Though they're on their way to making him an ambivalent character again, with the newer companion of his. But anyway.