TNG changes to TOS

[Melakon]

Was there anything TNG changed about the original that you disliked?

Too many to list. Costumes, size and look of the ship, did not like the bridge set, didn't care for Data as a character (didn't like Spock at first either), kid on the show which made me worry about what direction they were going, and a lot of the episodes had a sense of pretentiousness. That's just a few.

 

[jimbotron]

I suppose I could say Klingons having a cloaking device, though that's the fault of Star Trek III. The Bird-of-Prey was designed for Romulans in ST3, but the villains were changed to Klingons since they were more recognizable (and they could reuse the costumes from TMP).

This is handwaved in canon by saying the Klingons and Romulans had a brief alliance where they shared technology. Eh, whatever.

For the Romulans, it makes no sense at all for them to share their tech with Klingons, especially the cloaking device. The cloak was the single piece of technology that made the Romulans a force to be reckoned with. Without that advantage, they were no match for the Federation. TNG maintained that Klingons continued to have cloaking technology, which still doesn't make any sense, because it doesn't 'fit' Klingons. A cloak is about subterfuge and sneak attacks. Klingons have always been about bludgeoning their opponents, not tip-toeing. Is it really "honorable" to fool their opponents?

 

[Christopher]

I suppose I could say Klingons having a cloaking device, though that's the fault of Star Trek III.

Klingons were first established as having cloaking devices in the animated episode "The Time Trap," ten and a half years before ST III came out. Although it was a passing dialogue reference and wasn't actually shown.

The Bird-of-Prey was designed for Romulans in ST3, but the villains were changed to Klingons since they were more recognizable (and they could reuse the costumes from TMP).

It was initially plotted or scripted for Romulans, but the decision to change to Klingons was certainly made before the ship was actually designed or built, since it clearly follows a Klingon design philosophy with the long neck and wings.

For the Romulans, it makes no sense at all for them to share their tech with Klingons, especially the cloaking device. The cloak was the single piece of technology that made the Romulans a force to be reckoned with. Without that advantage, they were no match for the Federation.

Could it be that the Klingons actually stole the cloaking device (much as the Federation did), and that's why the alliance broke down? Would've been in keeping with TOS Klingons' general treachery to pretend to be the Romulans' allies only until they could get something from them.

 

[eyeresist]

The two nicknames I gave TNG: Beige Trek ; Social Workers in Space.

The Bird-of-Prey was designed for Romulans in ST3, but the villains were changed to Klingons since they were more recognizable (and they could reuse the costumes from TMP).

It was initially plotted or scripted for Romulans, but the decision to change to Klingons was certainly made before the ship was actually designed or built, since it clearly follows a Klingon design philosophy with the long neck and wings.

Surely the eagle design was a reference to the Roman-based Romulans?

 

[Anwar]

The two nicknames I gave TNG: Beige Trek ; Social Workers in Space.

The Bird-of-Prey was designed for Romulans in ST3, but the villains were changed to Klingons since they were more recognizable (and they could reuse the costumes from TMP).

It was initially plotted or scripted for Romulans, but the decision to change to Klingons was certainly made before the ship was actually designed or built, since it clearly follows a Klingon design philosophy with the long neck and wings.

Surely the eagle design was a reference to the Roman-based Romulans?

I'd say the major reference was Sulu calling it a Bird of Prey. The same thing mentioned in "Balance of Terror".

 

[erastus25]

The music after season 2 was uninspired at best, whereas TOS music was generally memorable.

 

[jimbotron]

The music after season 2 was uninspired at best, whereas TOS music was generally memorable.

I wouldn't go that far. Music in season 3 was still top notch.

Plus it's hard to credit TOS music since they tracked a lot of the same music over and over again.

 

[CaptainMurdock]

The Prime Directive.

Their version of the Romulans. Hated the head ridges, bulky shoulderpad costumes and uniform haircuts. (At least have some variety. When they all look pretty much the same the uniqueness and personality is lost.)

Space Viking Klingons. Seeing them as Allies were nice but the whole "Honor" thing got stereotypical and stale.

 

[Christopher]

Surely the eagle design was a reference to the Roman-based Romulans?

Yes, but we know for a fact that the switch from Romulans to Klingons happened in the writing process, long before any models would've been built. Therin of Andor discussed it recently in this post. The change had been made by the first draft screenplay in March 1983, although at that point the ship was meant to be a Romulan vessel taken as a prize by the Klingons. That did influence the design, but absolutely everything about the BoP except the bird-wing decoration is clearly a variation on the precedents set by the Klingon D7/K'tinga design -- the rounded forward pod connected by a long horizontal boom to a boxier rear section, the "wings" stretching out and downward, the large torpedo emitter at the lower bow, the green color scheme (not seen in Romulan ships until TNG years later). The majority of the design influence is quite obviously Klingon, with the single exception of the bird-wing decoration.

Plus it's hard to credit TOS music since they tracked a lot of the same music over and over again.

That's exactly what makes it so easy to credit. Hearing it over and over let us get to know it better and appreciate it more. Just because they didn't have the budget to score every episode, that doesn't count against the quality of the scores they did have.

 

[erastus25]

The music after season 2 was uninspired at best, whereas TOS music was generally memorable.

I wouldn't go that far. Music in season 3 was still top notch.

Plus it's hard to credit TOS music since they tracked a lot of the same music over and over again.

Yeah, I forget which season TNG switched its musical style, but it's a pretty dramatic change, regardless. And there were obviously notable exceptions, like The Inner Light.

As for TOS vs. TNG, I guess it comes down to whether or not you prefer memorable music reused over and over and over, or new, but totally forgettable, elevator music in almost every episode.

 

[BillJ]

The Prime Directive. It went from being a rule to religious dogma.

 

[allstar77]

The Warp 5 speed limit.

 

[BillJ]

Communicators. I prefer the old-fashioned flip design to the comm badge. It was more satisfying to watch the characters do the dramatic grab-n-flip when contacting each other or the ship.

 

[Armored Saint]

- The Romulans who no more look like Vulcans.
- In TOS and TOS movies, we saw the Vulcan coquetry and sensuality. Since TNG, the passionnate Romulans are beiger than the cold TOS Vulcans.
- In TOS, the "blue division" was active, we oftenly saw geologists, anthropologists, physicists, sociologists, biologists, etc... I suppose the fact Data's make-up didn't fit with the blue uniform didn't help, but TNG is also the take-over by the engineering. A lot of issues are not treated by the engineers. Being a specialist on the Enterprise-D means you're an engine or deflector specialist.
- In TNG, the civilians seems to be always government officials or scientist working for institutions. We don't seen many "independant" civilians in space or purely civilians ships.
- For me the worst case: The Prime Directive. In TOS, people who broke the PD were Ronald Tracey or R.M. Merik. In The Paradise Syndrome, nobody said saving the people from the alien planet was against the Prime Directive. It had concrecte goals: avoiding imperialism and other ism. In TNG, the Prime Directive is about abstract ideas. For Picard, cultural contamination is worse than letting people dying.

 

[Hypaspist]

^ Vulcans in TNG era all lack character. The exceptions are Sarek and Spock. I always figured that Spock was sort of like the Worf of his time. Being stigmatized from his own past, he acts even more Vulcan than Vulcan. He takes his beliefs in logic beyond the average, and it his character arc when he starts to accept that there is more to wisdom than logic alone. It's the same thing with Worf when he is the one who tells Picard that they shouldn't throw their lives away for nothing in FC.

I'd agree with the Romulans almost showing no passion at all. If their brain works in a more orderly fashion, that's fine, but I'd like to see more than just the dour Tal Shiar types. It's one of the reasons I found Nero and his crew to be so refreshing.

 

[Armored Saint]

I'd agree with the Romulans almost showing no passion at all. If their brain works in a more orderly fashion, that's fine, but I'd like to see more than just the dour Tal Shiar types.

I suppose Romulans needed to be sightly modernized. The Roman salute would have probably been kitch in 1988, but at least that whole Romanish imagery shown a passionate people and of course, there was the Female commander. Yeah, TNG made them dour.

 

[T'Girl]

Prime Directive ... In TNG, the Prime Directive is about abstract ideas. For Picard, cultural contamination is worse than letting people dying.

I thought one of TNG most interesting scenes was in Pen Pals, the senior officers meet in Picard's quarters to discuss the prime directive and we find out that none of them agree with each other as to what it means.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Communicators. I prefer the old-fashioned flip design to the comm badge. It was more satisfying to watch the characters do the dramatic grab-n-flip when contacting each other or the ship.

Too, you never knew if you turned your comm badge 'off.' If you bad-mouthed (or thought aloud something about) your superior, or another officer, or an alien culture...it probably could be overheard.

 

[BillJ]

Communicators. I prefer the old-fashioned flip design to the comm badge. It was more satisfying to watch the characters do the dramatic grab-n-flip when contacting each other or the ship.

Too, you never knew if you turned your comm badge 'off.' If you bad-mouthed (or thought aloud something about) your superior, or another officer, or an alien culture...it probably could be overheard.

It also gave the actors something to do with their hands.

 

[Armored Saint]

Communicators. I prefer the old-fashioned flip design to the comm badge. It was more satisfying to watch the characters do the dramatic grab-n-flip when contacting each other or the ship.

And whispering to the ship. Riker is almost shouting when he uses his commbage. Of course, nobody wants to see Riker whispering to his left nipple.

Too, you never knew if you turned your comm badge 'off.' If you bad-mouthed (or thought aloud something about) your superior, or another officer, or an alien culture...it probably could be overheard.

True, they're too much magic.