David Gerrold on TNG and the Behind-the-Scenes Drama

[Joel_Kirk]

"In the Heat of the Night" had Henry Rollins as Virgil Tibbs, a black leading role that was taken over by Carl Weathers in later seasons. And, there was the very short-lived "A Man Called Hawk."

It was Howard Rollins and that roll was black because the series was based on the book and movie of the same name revolving around a black dective sent to Sparta Missisippi.

Carl Weathers stepped in Carol O'Connor (who was very progressive) to allow the later to reduce his workload.

So it wasn't really that groundbreaking in the original casting (Tibbs originally being portrayed by Sidney Potier in the movie).

Yes, I'm aware of the original movie w/ Sidney Poitier.....and it's inferior sequels. (I actually only saw "They Call Me, Mr. Tibbs!" which featured Martin Landau, and I read one of the short stories based on the character - both which weren't that impressive).

I had to look it up on IMDB to jog my memory, but I do recall Carl Weathers having the lead in another cop drama - albeit short-lived - before he went on to "In the Heat of the Night." A show called "Street Justice" which ran from 1991-1993.

I do agree, it - "In the Heat of the Night" tv adaptation - wasn't that groundbreaking since, I believe, it was initially based around Carol O'Connor's character rather than Virgil Tibbs.

And, there was the very short-lived "A Man Called Hawk."

Which, of course, starred Avery Brooks, and thus was not on at the same time as DS9. I didn't say it was the first drama to have a black lead, just that it didn't have much competition in that regard. In the Heat of the Night overlapped with it for about a year and a half but then was gone.

I'll give you that...

 

[mos6507]

A discipline problem, yes. That doesn't equate to a psychological disability. And frankly I'm troubled that you seem to be treating disability as synonymous with bad behavior or an incapacity to hold a job. That's really a rather derogatory assumption.

I don't claim to know exactly what the purpose of Barclay was, but it sure seemed as though the character was created as the manifestation of the stereotypical nerd-core elements of Trek fandom, you know, the people Shatner was referring to in the "Get a Life" speech when he posited "Have you ever kissed a girl???". It seemed that he was put on the ship not because people like that would be desirable in Starfleet, but because that segment of fandom would directly identify with his social awkwardness and like the fact that people like them could find a niche in the Trek universe--that you don't have to be one of the beautiful people who look good with his shirt ripped and can execute drop-kicks like Kirk.

Unfortunately he came across too much as a caricature, and it didn't help that he was portrayed by someone who most remembered as an over-the-top nutso in the A-Team, so some of that nutso vibe rubbed off on how Barclay came across.

 

[Christopher]

Besides, I can't imagine that someone with Bashir's superhuman knowledge could actually be intellectually swayed by a 7th century religious treatise, except for perhaps moments of philosophical inspiration.

Now, that's deeply condescending. Most major religions are millennia old, but they still attract many quite brilliant people. Islam in particular has a rich history of scientific innovation and invention. Many geniuses throughout history have been inspired by Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and other faiths.

 

[mos6507]

Star Trek, while often dealing with cosmic/spiritual issues (godlike beings and the like) wisely avoided having its characters shown observing any conventional organized religion. It's just too polarizing on many levels.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I wonder if King Abdullah's character was a Muslim

 

[Salinga]

Star Trek portraits Earths future culture mostly secular. Which is no wonder, since Roddenberry was against religion (pretty much like I am - I am convinced as long as we have religion we will have war, the first step for global peace is the total extermination of religion in human culture).

Religion seems to be largely absent from the futuristic and secular world of the Federation and in particular from human society. Star Trek's takes on religious topics are often critical, and they almost routinely close with a victory of science over faith. This is anything but a surprise, knowing that Gene Roddenberry was an active atheist who struggled against any form of religion:

"I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will -- and a hell of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all. For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain." (Gene Roddenberry)

In a Q&A session executive producer Brannon Braga was asked whether there was supposed to be a deity in the stories that he wrote. He said:

"No, there was no consideration in giving humans, talking about God, or talking about those types of things. We wanted to avoid it to be quite frank. But we did very often explore theology through alien characters. Which frankly is much more interesting anyway. Whether it was the Bajorans and their religion or the Borg and their religion. They had the religion of perfection. That, I think, was more interesting. We want to keep Star Trek secular. The human facet of Star Trek secular." (Brannon Braga, transcript from his former website)

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/religion.htm

 

[Christopher]

I don't know if it's accurate to say Roddenberry was an atheist. It's clear from a lot of what he wrote and said over the years that he was very concerned with the search for the creator (see ST:TMP) and the meaning of our existence. So I think he did have a sense of spirituality. What he distrusted was organized religion, the human institutions that claim to definitively codify the truth about the divine and use it as an excuse for asserting power and influence. I recall reading in some biography that he found it unbelievable that the true meaning of divinity could be contained in anything as restrictive as the rules and forms of an organized church.

There's a line from Howard Weinstein's TNG novel Power Hungry where Picard and a guest character are discussing theology and belief, and Picard describes his visit to a church and how he was moved by the amazing architecture, but didn't see it as having any deeper spiritual significance. Picard said that he just couldn't believe -- and this is a direct quote from memory, since it's stuck with me all these years -- "that any structure or philosophy devised by man could ever hope to represent or replicate divinity." I think that's probably pretty close to Roddenberry's view on the matter.

 

[q264]

Besides, I can't imagine that someone with Bashir's superhuman knowledge could actually be intellectually swayed by a 7th century religious treatise, except for perhaps moments of philosophical inspiration.

Now, that's deeply condescending. Most major religions are millennia old, but they still attract many quite brilliant people. Islam in particular has a rich history of scientific innovation and invention. Many geniuses throughout history have been inspired by Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and other faiths.

Oh I know religion has played a crucial role in the intellectual development of our species. Islam in particular is full of these examples from the development of astronomy and mathematics to the re-introduction of Aristotle to the west after all the original texts were lost. I'm just saying a brilliant mind of the 24th century would probably search for a rational explanation to the universe rather than subscribe to supernatural beliefs of any nature. DS9 does a great job of exploring this idea with the whole Prophets/Wormhole Aliens duality, but only the Bajorans themselves see them as Gods.

 

[T'Girl]

Why would Bashir be Muslim just because he has was of Arab descent? To cast the one brown guy as a Muslim is sort of absurd and offensive ...

I thought he was British?

Doubleohfive wrote that "the writers of Enterprise missed a huge opportunity to include a Muslim * OR * Arab character as a member of the crew." There follow a mention of Bashir. I follow with a lament that Bashir wasn't written as a Muslim, there was no connection (in my post) of making the Bashir a Muslim owing to him being a Arab, that came solely from you my friend.

... particularly since no one ever references Jesus ...

You don't think showing Angela Martine genuflecting prior to her marriage ceremony is a sign of Christanity?

not to mention zero indication of people from non-Abrahamic religions

There are multiple references to Vulcans having religion or religions.

And there are Hindu reference in TOS and TNG.

Besides, I can't imagine that someone with Bashir's superhuman knowledge could actually be intellectually swayed by a 7th century religious treatise, except for perhaps moments of philosophical inspiration.

Unless it was his "superhuman knowledge" that naturally lead him to a life of faith.

I am convinced as long as we have religion we will have war

Given that the largest wars in Human history have been secular, that's a strange statement.

 

[Christopher]

I'm just saying a brilliant mind of the 24th century would probably search for a rational explanation to the universe rather than subscribe to supernatural beliefs of any nature.

There have been many thinkers in history who have found it very rational to believe in a higher power. I don't personally agree with them on that point, but they've arrived at their spiritual beliefs through a very reasoned process.

I think you're making the common mistake of seeing religion as an alternative to physics and science as an explanation for the origins of the physical universe, as creationists see it. But there are plenty of people today who accept science as the explanation for the material universe while still believing that religion has value for exploring the more spiritual, intangible side of existence, the questions of ultimate meaning, and other stuff that science doesn't address. For them, science and faith are complementary rather than competitive.

 

[CrazyMatt]

Yikes! A religion discussion! The only more controversial topic posted on this site is in regards to canon.

Oh wait....

 

[q264]

I thought he was British?

Doubleohfive wrote that "the writers of Enterprise missed a huge opportunity to include a Muslim * OR * Arab character as a member of the crew." There follow a mention of Bashir. I follow with a lament that Bashir wasn't written as a Muslim, there was no connection (in my post) of making the Bashir a Muslim owing to him being a Arab, that came solely from you my friend.

British is a nationality, Arab is an ethnicity. Perhaps you are right though, what I was attempting to say was that making Bashir a Muslim when no other human character seems to follow a religion would be downright odd and puzzling. I was also saying that the show (not a member's post) might be considered hypothetically offensive had he been cast that way, either in the sense that an "ethnic" character had been given a set of supernatural beliefs rather than scientific beliefs, or quite possibly even in the sense that since he would have been the only human character with an identifiable Earth religion that somehow that would mean Star Trek was implying Islam was more "correct" than the others.

You don't think showing Angela Martine genuflecting prior to her marriage ceremony is a sign of Christanity?

There are multiple references to Vulcans having religion or religions.

And there are Hindu reference in TOS and TNG.

Yeah, I guess it would have been impossible for Christianity to have NOT snuck in there somehow. It makes sense that it was through a marriage ceremony and that it was from TOS. I don't recall the Hindu references, though I'm sure they weren't significant or implying that the crewmembers were worshiping Vishnu.

Besides, I can't imagine that someone with Bashir's superhuman knowledge could actually be intellectually swayed by a 7th century religious treatise, except for perhaps moments of philosophical inspiration.

Unless it was his "superhuman knowledge" that naturally lead him to a life of faith.

Touché!

 

[Christopher]

I don't recall the Hindu references, though I'm sure they weren't significant or implying that the crewmembers were worshiping Vishnu.

"Data's Day" referred to a shipboard celebration of the Hindu Festival of Lights, and in "Cold Front" Dr. Phlox referred to having studied Hinduism, as well as visiting a Tibetan monastery and attending Mass in St. Peter's Square, among others.

 

[q264]

I'm just saying a brilliant mind of the 24th century would probably search for a rational explanation to the universe rather than subscribe to supernatural beliefs of any nature.

There have been many thinkers in history who have found it very rational to believe in a higher power. I don't personally agree with them on that point, but they've arrived at their spiritual beliefs through a very reasoned process.

I think you're making the common mistake of seeing religion as an alternative to physics and science as an explanation for the origins of the physical universe, as creationists see it. But there are plenty of people today who accept science as the explanation for the material universe while still believing that religion has value for exploring the more spiritual, intangible side of existence, the questions of ultimate meaning, and other stuff that science doesn't address. For them, science and faith are complementary rather than competitive.

I don't think I'm making that mistake, but I do agree with what you are saying. In fact, I don't think it's irrational at all to have a spiritual view on "the more intangible sides of existence", but that is also because I come from a pale blue dot in seemingly cosmic isolation.

 

[T'Girl]

That Which Survives. One of the bridge officers, Lieutenant Rahda, was displaying a bindi.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

There are at least seven other disabled people in Star Trek who were regulars or central guest characters ...

Don't forget Miranda Jones, who was blind and could "see" by way of a advance sensor device ... long before LaForge.

Quite so.

That Which Survives. One of the bridge officers, Lieutenant Rahda, was displaying a bindi.

Also, yes. At least, it would certainly seem so. The character is Lieutenant Rahda.

 

[Daddy Todd]

Damn, I used to have a book that summarized a bunch of unfilmed Trek scripts including "Blood and Fire," but I don't have it anymore...

The complete TNG version of the script was published in Gerrold's 2007 Boskone GOH collection, The Involuntary Human. The original version is considerably better than the Phase II version.

 

[Destructor]

I think you're making the common mistake of seeing religion as an alternative to physics and science as an explanation for the origins of the physical universe, as creationists see it. But there are plenty of people today who accept science as the explanation for the material universe while still believing that religion has value for exploring the more spiritual, intangible side of existence, the questions of ultimate meaning, and other stuff that science doesn't address. For them, science and faith are complementary rather than competitive.

Hear, hear.

 

[Trek Survivor]

I am convinced as long as we have religion we will have war, the first step for global peace is the total extermination of religion in human culture.

Oh, come on. PEOPLE use religion as a justification for war - religions rarely advocate such acts.

To draw an analogy - many terrible acts and crimes have been committed in the name of love, or self-protection, or national pride etc. Should we "exterminate" all of these from culture as well?

Human beings are responsible for what they do. The fact that many use religion as some of explanation/defense of terrible acts they commit speaks poorly of those individuals, not the religion itself.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I am convinced as long as we have religion we will have war, the first step for global peace is the total extermination of religion in human culture.

Oh, come on. PEOPLE use religion as a justification for war - religions rarely advocate such acts.

To draw an analogy - many terrible acts and crimes have been committed in the name of love, or self-protection, or national pride etc. Should we "exterminate" all of these from culture as well?

Human beings are responsible for what they do. The fact that many use religion as some of explanation/defense of terrible acts they commit speaks poorly of those individuals, not the religion itself.

Exactly. Well said, Trek Survivor.