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News about the TOS 11-Footer



That photo really makes me nervous. They were supposed to be repairing the building that housed the actual Buran shuttle and instead, they brought the roof down on it
.

The first thing--I mean the first thing that should have been done is a three D scan.

What I might do is to have a jig that--at the end of the day--is rolled under the nacelles to help support them while the museum is closed, and is rolled back at opening--though this might introduce flexing...now that I think of it.

The only sad thing is that Ed Miarecki has probably gotten his feelings hurt over the deal with the grid lines.

I like a very light touch myself--but never posted anything about the grid lines in a hurtful way.
 
First picture of restored Enterprise released!
ent_restored.jpg

:razz:

This may happen one day; Paramount/CBS/Bad Robot might actually donate a shooting model (if one exists) to the museum for posterity's sake. It woulds be interesting to see if the current model could ever be replaced, but it could conceivably happen.

Hell, I'm surprised that the Enterprise from TNG and USS Voyager (as well as the NX-01 Enterprise) aren't there.
 
I'm not sure I agree. After all, if you want something that looks just like the original miniature, there are countless fan modelmakers who can create replicas. This is a museum piece, a historical artifact being preserved for purposes of scholarship. Hiding the changes that it's undergone with the passage of time might be aesthetically satisfying, but from a historical/archaeological viewpoint, it might be better to preserve the physical record of those changes.

After all, while there are surely some who'd like to see things like the Sphinx or the Parthenon or the Colosseum restored to their original glory, the general approach to preserving them is simply to prevent any further deterioration, keeping them in their ruined state because that's part of their history. There's more at stake than simple aesthetics.

The Sphinx and other ancient artifacts are victims of deterioration over time and, yes, some defacement over the centuries. The TOS E isn't nearly that old and it's worst constant enemy has been mostly gravity. That and defacement at the hands of misguided individuals during past "restorations."

It should be restored to what it was before previous individuals tried "fixing" it.


Beyond that it would be rather cool if someone did build another 11 ft. miniature finished all around. :D
 
I'm not sure I agree. After all, if you want something that looks just like the original miniature, there are countless fan modelmakers who can create replicas. This is a museum piece, a historical artifact being preserved for purposes of scholarship. Hiding the changes that it's undergone with the passage of time might be aesthetically satisfying, but from a historical/archaeological viewpoint, it might be better to preserve the physical record of those changes.

After all, while there are surely some who'd like to see things like the Sphinx or the Parthenon or the Colosseum restored to their original glory, the general approach to preserving them is simply to prevent any further deterioration, keeping them in their ruined state because that's part of their history. There's more at stake than simple aesthetics.

I disagree. The "restorations" to date have been anything but. They have altered the original appearance, and I'm sure that branched off an alternate timeline where that's the way it's always looked, and Kirk and Spock were played by James Arness and Ken Curtis. :lol:

In my opinion, the model should be restored and preserved in the way it was originally built and filmed.

The Sphinx, etc. have never been seen in their original condition by anyone alive today, and are not on film as such. I don't think it's a fair comparison.

publiusr said:
The only sad thing is that Ed Miarecki has probably gotten his feelings hurt over the deal with the grid lines.

I like a very light touch myself--but never posted anything about the grid lines in a hurtful way.
If Mr. Miarecki gets his feelings hurt, oh well. Life is hard.
 
I wonder whether the examination is to see whether a better restoration can be accomplished without compromising the aims of preservation and conservation.
 
Now to avoid all the weight on the forward nacelle from a lighting system with moving parts--I wonder if something like a display screen can be made in the shape of a dome:

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...ped_display_system_on_laparoscopic_procedures

Yeah, no.

That's a nice thought, but I think it should be a full-on restoration. Like with a classic car. NOS parts, or reproductions of those parts.

The weight of the model can be supported with plexi stands if necessary. But the original condition should be restored and maintained.

Even if it's necessary to construct an internal armature to support the weight, the exterior and working parts should be restored to the original filming condition.

Again, my opinion.
 
I disagree. The "restorations" to date have been anything but. They have altered the original appearance, and I'm sure that branched off an alternate timeline where that's the way it's always looked, and Kirk and Spock were played by James Arness and Ken Curtis. :lol:

Read the post I quoted above. It says the Smithsonian's priority is conservation (preserving original materials and preventing further deterioration) over restoration (putting something back the way it was originally). Whether the changes are good or bad doesn't matter. A lot of bad things happened to the Sphinx (its nose being vandalized) and the Parthenon (being turned into an Ottoman ammo dump and blown up by the Venetians), but all those things, good or bad, are part of their history. Recording history is not about preserving only the parts we like.

For myself, subjectively, as a fan, I would like to see the miniature restored to its original specs. But I'm also a student of history, and from that perspective I have to be aware that what's been done with the miniature in the decades since TOS ended is a part of its history as an artifact, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of trying to efface it and pretend it never happened. Museums should be about documenting the facts, not fabricating a pleasing illusion.

What if the only way to restore this deteriorating object to its exact 1960s appearance was to replace major portions of it with new, modern materials? What if future restorers in the decades to come kept replacing parts of it until you had something that looked like the original but had no actual pieces of it left? Would there even be any point to that?

Maybe it's better to preserve as much of the original material as possible even if that material is visibly degraded from its original appearance. Think of all the statues and marble carvings in museums that used to be brightly painted but are now bare white because the paint wore off centuries ago. Or damaged artworks like the Venus de Milo.

After all, the problem with the Miarecki restoration is that it was more concerned with making the miniature look good, in the opinion of the restorer, than with preserving it as a historical artifact. So maybe it's better to focus on preserving the substance rather than the form.
 
Christopher said:
Read the post I quoted above.

I did, before I posted.

My opinion stands. :)

ETA: The Sistine Chapel's ceiling was restored to its original condition. That may or may not be an equivalent, but there it is. ;)
 
I'm thinking of the recently restored Galileo fullsize mockup. It was in far worse shape than the 11 footer E. But now people can see the Galileo near exactly as it was when it was filmed originally. It necessitated replacing parts damaged beyond repair, but as long as it's documented (which I believe it has) then it satisfies all interests.

There are plenty of photographs in existence showing how the 11 footer has been "fixed" to the point of defacement. There's your historical documentation of its treatment. So now lets put it back the way it was meant to be. Just like the Galileo.
 
I'm thinking of the recently restored Galileo fullsize mockup. It was in far worse shape than the 11 footer E. But now people can see the Galileo near exactly as it was when it was filmed originally. It necessitated replacing parts damaged beyond repair, but as long as it's documented (which I believe it has) then it satisfies all interests.

There are plenty of photographs in existent showing how the 11 footer has been "fixed" to the point of defacement. There's your historical documentation of its treatment. So now lets put it back the way it was meant to be. Just like the Galileo.

Thank you. :)
 
I am for treating it like a loved prop rather than an artifact demonstrating the history of salvaged-model defacement and misguided restoration. Get it back to how it looked before being "restored." Except, all we have are photos to go by, and those always change how something looked in person.

For the sake of argument, let's say it looked different in person than it did on an RCA TV in 1967. My understanding of the very bright lights needed for the model make me think that is almost certainly true.

Do you want it the way it looked on TV or in person in 1967?
 
The first thing would be to gather as many photographs as possible of the model before it went into the post-production treatment. It's also a pity Matt Jefferies is no longer with us. What about Richard Datin, though? And Robert Justman. Did David Gerrold ever get a look at it back in the day?

I also think someone like Gary Kerr would be a valuable consultant. Possibly no one has researched the miniature more than he has.
 
It's also a pity Matt Jefferies is no longer with us. What about Richard Datin, though? And Robert Justman.

Unfortunately they're all gone, so first hand information is getting scarce. :(

Datin's website had info, but was rarely updated.
 
ETA: The Sistine Chapel's ceiling was restored to its original condition. That may or may not be an equivalent, but there it is. ;)

Well, it would be physically impossible to restore it to its actual original condition, and impossible to know for a fact what that exact condition was. But that is a good example to use in this discussion. Here's Wikipedia's summary of the goals of that restoration:
  • To study the frescoes progressively, to analyse any discoveries and utilise the appropriate technical responses.
  • To record every step of the operation in archival reports, photographs and film.
  • To use only those procedures and materials which were simple, extensively tested, not harmful, and reversible.
  • To repair cracks and structural damage that threatened the stability of the plaster.
  • To remove layers of grime consisting of candle wax and soot that had been deposited by the burning of candles in the chapel for 500 years.
  • To remove repainting by previous restorers that attempted to counteract the effects of soot and other accretions.
  • To remove oil and animal fat used to counteract salination of areas where water had leaked through.
  • To remove crystalline accretions of salt that had whitened areas where water had leaked through.
  • To conserve surfaces that were in danger of further deterioration because of bubbling, and flaking.
  • To restore sympathetically those areas where deterioration of one sort or another had obliterated details and caused loss of integrity to the whole, for example, filling a bad crack and painting the plaster in a colour matching the original.
  • To maintain in small defined areas a physical historical record of the previous restorations that had taken place.

So the main goals were to remove things that obscured the original work, like the soot and earlier repaintings; to do limited restoration as needed to preserve details that would otherwise be lost; to prevent further decay; and to maintain some physical and archival record of the history of the changes made to the frescoes over the centuries. Overall, to get as close to the original, unadulterated work as feasible and minimize any artificial substitutions of the type that past restorations had used. But that's inevitably going to be different from the actual original condition, simply because so much time has passed.

If they took a similar approach with the Enterprise, that could adequately balance the desire to preserve its authentic appearance with the need to document its post-series physical history. It would mean the Miarecki restoration would be mostly removed, but maybe a small part of it and the prior two restorations would be preserved as a physical record, and there would be extensive photographic and video documentation of the conservation process, as Warped9 suggests. But it wouldn't necessarily mean that the miniature would end up looking exactly as it did half a century earlier, because the physical materials themselves have aged. It might be as close as it was feasible to make it without the kind of aggressive restoration that brought down such criticism the last time, but it would still reflect the passage of time.

But it's worth noting that there are critics of the Sistine Chapel restoration, people who insist that it actually changed or damaged the work and failed to reflect what they believed Michelangelo's intentions to have been. That's the thing about history: There is no absolute certainty. What one person believes to be an authentic restoration, someone else will insist is wrong. I mean, heck, that's true in Trek fandom in general. There's nothing all fans agree on any more than there's anything all historians or art critics agree on. Whatever approach they take, someone's going to be unhappy with it.
 
As to the top saucer as a guide, that has certainly aged/faded over 50 years. So not nec. a guide to original state.
 
ETA: The Sistine Chapel's ceiling was restored to its original condition. That may or may not be an equivalent, but there it is. ;)

Well, it would be physically impossible to restore it to its actual original condition, and impossible to know for a fact what that exact condition was. But that is a good example to use in this discussion. Here's Wikipedia's summary of the goals of that restoration:
  • To study the frescoes progressively, to analyse any discoveries and utilise the appropriate technical responses.
  • To record every step of the operation in archival reports, photographs and film.
  • To use only those procedures and materials which were simple, extensively tested, not harmful, and reversible.
  • To repair cracks and structural damage that threatened the stability of the plaster.
  • To remove layers of grime consisting of candle wax and soot that had been deposited by the burning of candles in the chapel for 500 years.
  • To remove repainting by previous restorers that attempted to counteract the effects of soot and other accretions.
  • To remove oil and animal fat used to counteract salination of areas where water had leaked through.
  • To remove crystalline accretions of salt that had whitened areas where water had leaked through.
  • To conserve surfaces that were in danger of further deterioration because of bubbling, and flaking.
  • To restore sympathetically those areas where deterioration of one sort or another had obliterated details and caused loss of integrity to the whole, for example, filling a bad crack and painting the plaster in a colour matching the original.
  • To maintain in small defined areas a physical historical record of the previous restorations that had taken place.

So the main goals were to remove things that obscured the original work, like the soot and earlier repaintings; to do limited restoration as needed to preserve details that would otherwise be lost; to prevent further decay; and to maintain some physical and archival record of the history of the changes made to the frescoes over the centuries. Overall, to get as close to the original, unadulterated work as feasible and minimize any artificial substitutions of the type that past restorations had used. But that's inevitably going to be different from the actual original condition, simply because so much time has passed.

If they took a similar approach with the Enterprise, that could adequately balance the desire to preserve its authentic appearance with the need to document its post-series physical history. It would mean the Miarecki restoration would be mostly removed, but maybe a small part of it and the prior two restorations would be preserved as a physical record, and there would be extensive photographic and video documentation of the conservation process, as Warped9 suggests. But it wouldn't necessarily mean that the miniature would end up looking exactly as it did half a century earlier, because the physical materials themselves have aged. It might be as close as it was feasible to make it without the kind of aggressive restoration that brought down such criticism the last time, but it would still reflect the passage of time.

But it's worth noting that there are critics of the Sistine Chapel restoration, people who insist that it actually changed or damaged the work and failed to reflect what they believed Michelangelo's intentions to have been. That's the thing about history: There is no absolute certainty. What one person believes to be an authentic restoration, someone else will insist is wrong. I mean, heck, that's true in Trek fandom in general. There's nothing all fans agree on any more than there's anything all historians or art critics agree on. Whatever approach they take, someone's going to be unhappy with it.

Not sure why preserving the misguided previous renovations is important to keep a record of. To me the renovation should erase the errors already made to the model and get it back to the way it looked when last filmed. When I saw it in 1976 it had candy apple red domes on the front of the engines, had a huge gold hemisphere where the defector dish was and had a mis-shapened bridge dome. Why would any of that need to be preserved? In kind, why would any of the wrong paint job currently on it need to be preserved? Preserving errors is not important to me. If they had a P-51 mustang that after the war had been in the circus and painted purple; to me that's not part of the original P-51 and should not be preserved as part of the record.
 
Not sure why preserving the misguided previous renovations is important to keep a record of. To me the renovation should erase the errors already made to the model and get it back to the way it looked when last filmed.

Yep. :bolian: But in theory, knowing what was done over the years could become useful if some weird new problem were to emerge. It might aid in the detective work.
 
Restoring a Sphinx or a Sistine Chapel fresco to its original form is dicey because the artifacts are centuries to thousands of years old. Restoring a studio miniature to near its original condition should be somewhat easier given the item is only fifty years old and we have extensive documentation and photographic evidence attesting to its original condition.
 
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