Trek and Terrorism

[M.A.C.O.]

Before 9/11/2001, terrorism wasn't a part of the collective American public conscience. After the Pentagon and World Trade Center attacks, words like Taliban, Al Queda, and suicide bomber became household terms. In the European countries(UK, France, German), Japan, The Middle East countries, several nations in Africa; all faced and lived with the reality of terrorism for decades. With the continuing turmoil in the Middle East and Africa and with groups such as ISIL, Al Queda, The Taliban, Boko Haram,and Hamas still causing trouble.

My question is
Do you think the writers of Trek handled the concept of terrorism well?

Follow up: Do you think the different eras and types of terrorsist groups account for the disparity among terrorism's portrayal in the media?


Watching episodes prior to 9/11

TNG
The High Ground
Preemptive Strike


DS9
The Darkness and the Light
In The Hands of the Prophets
The Maqui I-II
In The Pale Moonlight
Past Prologue
Things Past
For the Cause
For the Uniform
Tacking to the Wind
The first 3 episodes of Season 2

(Many others I can't recall atm)


Post 9/11/2001 you have

ENT
The Expanse
Carpenter Street
Chosen Realm
The Forgotten
Demons
Terra Prime

Films
Star Trek Into Darkness


Pre-9/11 I suspect the inspiration for terrorism stories and themes for Trek writers was the IRA. Framing the terrorists (in Trek) as sympathetic in their David vs Golaith struggle for independence. The watching the Pre-9/11 stories I get a sense that while the writers are not condoning terrorism, they are saying it's permissible in certain situations.


Post-9/11 though, it's all different. Terrorist acts are viewed as vile and condemned. You have groups like Terra Prime which want Earth for Earthings the same way the Bajorans freedom fighters want Bajor for Bajorans and the Maqui want the freedom to live where they made their homes (in the DMZ). And yet the latter two are romantized for there decisions to take a stand against their oppressors and agitators, but Terra Prime is viewed a evil and wrong for the steps they take. Compare the fall of Terra Prime to DS9's "Blaze of Glory" (with the fall of the Maqui) where Sisko and Dax wax poetic about Eddington's end by dying in what he believed in.

The episode "Chosen Realm" is the most blatant (as a metaphor for Islamic Extremest) in it's message on terrorism and religious extremism.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I saw an interview with Ira Steven Behr once - he said he really felt like they came down on the side of terrorists in DS9 and that he was glad they got to tell those stories, because he didn't think they would've been allowed to do that after 9/11.

The problem with sticking to a pre/post 9/11 analysis, though, is there just hasn't been enough 'post' ST to really match the earlier samples. Is Terra Prime really even close enough to earlier examples to be comparable?

The Maquis and the Bajoran Resistance formed in response to unprovoked military and paramilitary assaults. Murder, invasion, oppression, kidnapping, bombs, etc. They're morally acceptable because their offensive actions are (in the larger picture) still taken in communal self-defense. I didn't see a lot of ENT, but the lines I remember hearing about 'earth-firsters' on that show were much more along the lines of people who just didn't like the fact that aliens existed and that the govt. chose to allow some of them to live on earth. What exactly was the lead up to Terra Prime's terrorist acts?

Because unless they were responding to roving gangs of violent aliens on earth which the govt. somehow refused/failed to stop, I can't see calling them even remotely comparable to the later anti-cardassian movements. The point is that while it may be acceptable in certain situations, you have to be very careful exactly where you draw the line between one situation and another, and simply not liking your neighbors and wanting them to go away isn't anywhere near acceptable.

 

[Melakon]

ENT Season 3 was essentially Year of the Terrorist with the Xindi Arc, and may be a reason I don't embrace it as much as others do. It was too close to an allegory for me from the beginning and an in your face way of trying to be timely. I prefer more subtlety in allusions.

Peter Weller's character in Terra Prime seems closer to a Bond villain to me than a terrorist.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

What exactly was the lead up to Terra Prime's terrorist acts?

Because unless they were responding to roving gangs of violent aliens on earth which the govt. somehow refused/failed to stop, I can't see calling them even remotely comparable to the later anti-cardassian movements. The point is that while it may be acceptable in certain situations, you have to be very careful exactly where you draw the line between one situation and another, and simply not liking your neighbors and wanting them to go away isn't anywhere near acceptable.

What caused the rise of Terra Prime was the Xindi attack on Earth. A Xindi sphere emerged out of subspace delivers this attack on Earth killing 7 million people.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8zsdIQe9UQ[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZhJI-6Cbjs[/yt]


The first attack on Earth was a test run. The Xindi were constructing an even larger weapon which would frag the entire planet. The full effect seen here in an alternate timeline.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHCNha9Xxas[/yt]


Archer and crew are successful in stopping the plot and destroying the weapon but an anti-alien sentiment grew on Earth. Terra Prime was a xenophobic group who believed Star Fleet's missions in to space had attracted the attention of the Xindi. Like the US after Pearl Harbor and 9/11, paranoia and hatred against anyone non-human (Vulcans, Tellarites, Androians, Denobuloans etc) festered. Terra Prime wanting all non-humans to leave Earth and for Star Fleet to cease it's space explorations. Paxton (Peter Weller who was also Admiral Marcus in STID) threatened to destroy Starfleet command if they didn't comply. Paxton and his followers concerns that Starfleet's continued missions would attract more hostile aliens to Earth.

 

[The Wormhole]

The pre-9/11 stuff is kind of poignant looking back at it now, since in a lot of ways it is predicting the world to come with uncomfortable accuracy. In fact, the DS9 episode where Earth is attacked by the Breen always stands out to me since the attitudes and reactions of everyone in that episode, the sense of dread which seems to permeate every scene actually makes the episode feel like what I actually remember 9/11 being like. Which is pretty good, considering the episode pre-dates 9/11 by two years. Then you have Enterprise's The Expanse, which deals with the same concept, Earth being attacked only now it's done nearly two years after 9/11 and inspired by it, and really the final product comes off heavy-handed and forced, not to mention unsubtle.

 

[Cyke101]

For DS9, I'd certainly add Homefront and Paradise Lost simply because of the increased police state in the name of defending against terrorist attacks. It was rather daring that the cliffhanger was Starfleet itself beaming down troops to (New Orleans, for that matter), as opposed to, say, showing the terrorists, which would've been easier to do. So even with the looming threat of Changeling terrorism, the big bad remained the notion of sacrificing liberty for freedom, using terrorism as an excuse. In the past, the Federation would stick to its ideals to weather a storm, but Leyton was actively trying to throw those ideals out the window to justify protection.

To me, it rings strongly of Ferguson and the police, specifically how the police have been taken over by the military industrial complex, which itself was fueled immensely by 9/11 furor and fear of terrorism. When cops are better armed than soldiers to the point where there's no difference between the police and the military, there's a problem, and just makes peacekeeping even worse for everyone involved.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I see some of the DS9 terrorism stuff as testing grounds for things they later did in Battlestar Galactica.

It paints terrorism as more of a tool to fight against stronger forces. The Bajoran resistance used it to defend themselves over a foreign power enslaving their entire planet, kind of like the way the Colonies used it against the British. And it's the same tactics that get used by aspiring dictators looking to kill anyone who doesn't follow their religion. According to DS9, the tactics are not good or evil, only the ends are. The New Caprica arc in BSG then took those ideas and expanded them.

 

[Relayer1]

I thought BSG's use of suicide bombings by the colonists was incredibly brave at the time. The old 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' adage did not get much sympathy then...

 

[Cyke101]

I thought BSG's use of suicide bombings by the colonists was incredibly brave at the time. The old 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' adage did not get much sympathy then...

I remember more than a few public folks getting yelled down because they said that the US "needs to understand the enemy." They took it to mean that terrorists should be coddled and understand their justifications as if the attacks were a mere disagreement, when really what they meant was that to know them psychologically, politically, and tactically in order to best retaliate and capture the masterminds.

But tensions and fear ran so high back then that semantics and lack of basic language skills meant that anything could get twisted and turn you into public enemy #2 (behind Osama). People jumped the gun all over the place. One guy affected airline security policy to this day thanks to his shoe.

When I was a kid, I didn't fully understand Joseph Sisko's rejection of obligatory blood tests, but in my youth, I was always trained to follow the law. But really he was one of the first figures in my TV experience to really pose the question, "Do the ends justify the means?" in a very grounded, relatable way.

 

[sonak]

I saw an interview with Ira Steven Behr once - he said he really felt like they came down on the side of terrorists in DS9 and that he was glad they got to tell those stories, because he didn't think they would've been allowed to do that after 9/11.

The problem with sticking to a pre/post 9/11 analysis, though, is there just hasn't been enough 'post' ST to really match the earlier samples. Is Terra Prime really even close enough to earlier examples to be comparable?

The Maquis and the Bajoran Resistance formed in response to unprovoked military and paramilitary assaults. Murder, invasion, oppression, kidnapping, bombs, etc. They're morally acceptable because their offensive actions are (in the larger picture) still taken in communal self-defense. I didn't see a lot of ENT, but the lines I remember hearing about 'earth-firsters' on that show were much more along the lines of people who just didn't like the fact that aliens existed and that the govt. chose to allow some of them to live on earth. What exactly was the lead up to Terra Prime's terrorist acts?

Because unless they were responding to roving gangs of violent aliens on earth which the govt. somehow refused/failed to stop, I can't see calling them even remotely comparable to the later anti-cardassian movements. The point is that while it may be acceptable in certain situations, you have to be very careful exactly where you draw the line between one situation and another, and simply not liking your neighbors and wanting them to go away isn't anywhere near acceptable.

there have been many oppressed groups throughout Earth's history that haven't turned to mass terrorism and murder of innocents: Blacks in the US during slavery or Jim Crow, American Indians in the 19th century, Jews in Europe for a number of different periods, Gypsies, etc.

Does a "cause" give you free reign to use whatever tactics you want and does that allow you to claim sympathy? Terrorism is defined as deliberately targeting innocents and non-military objectives to spread fear. One can take up arms in defense and not use deliberately immoral tactics.

As for the Maquis, they didn't have much of a cause in my view. They chose to live under the Cardassians and leave the UFP when they could have easily re-located to another planet. They chose violence over relatively painless resettlement.

 

[Marsden]

Well, there's a big difference between terrorism and guerilla warfare, although sometimes it can be blurry. I don't think the Bajorans or Maqui were terrrorists.

For example, are the Maqui blowing up Cardassian weapons and ships, or houses and schools? There's a big difference, but then the if the Cardassian's start storing their weapons in schools, it's really blurry about how far some are willing to go and how much they want to use noncombatant civillians as meat shields.

Also, a freedom fighter doesn't blow his ass up in a crowd of people. You don't fight for freedom by taking away everyone else's.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I can sympathize with the Maquis cause. I see it as a libertarian stand that their territory did not belong to the UFP to give away.

Although I think Quark's argument to the Vulcan in The Maquis did a far better job explaining why their movement was stupid than I could ever do.

And the Bajoran resistance statedly did not shy away from attacking civilian targets.

You should see the film Battle of Algiers. It's a film made in the 60s about terrorism in the French occupation of Algeria, and the whole thing has huge parallels to not only 00s terrorism but the kind of stories we see in DS9 and BSG.

I think there's a huge gray area in determining the accountability of people who aren't combatants but who are supporting and benefiting from the oppression. Which is a HUGE slippery slope argument because it's the same one Al-Qaeda uses to excuse attacking innocent people. But the difference is really that the Bajoran resistance was fighting to end oppression and Al-Qaeda is fighting to increase oppression. Using terrorist tactics when your family is being murdered and enslaved by a foreign power is not the same as using them because you would very much like it if everybody had the same religion as you.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I can sympathize with the Maquis cause. I see it as a libertarian stand that their territory did not belong to the UFP to give away.

Actually, yes it did. Not only was the DMZ actually part of Federation territory to begin with, which gives the Federation pretty much the absolute right to do what they want with it, it was the Maquis' idea to subsequently live under Cardassian rule in the first place ("Journey's End"). That doesn't justify what later happened, of course - meaning, the Cardassian colonists' aggression against them - but the colonists did have a say in things. It's not like the Federation did this unilaterally without consulting them first. The colonists were offered help to move, but they rejected it. They chose to live in the DMZ. They must shoulder at least some of the responsibility.

Remember, there was a war on. The Federation had one of two choices: 1) Do nothing, and the war with Cardassia would continue; or 2) Give some territory away, and thus placate the Cardassians. It's one of these two choices. There is no third. Either there is war, or not. What would the Maquis colonists have preferred? There is a near-infinite amount of living space in the Federation, after all. The claim that they were just "defending their homes" does tend to fall flat, after awhile. They could have just MOVED!

That being said: Most of the Maquis were not terrorists. Some joined just for the thrills (Tom Paris), some because they liked to kill (Suder), but most - like Chakotay - did it because of the principles involved.

Eddington, on the other hand? He was indeed a terrorist. He was an egotistical jackass of the worst kind. He would not have hesitated to use biogenic weapons to wipe out Cardassia itself (as I believed he did threaten to do, in at least one episode). He was in the Maquis because of his own ego, nothing more. He fancied himself a revolutionary who he believed should be followed unquestionably. He has no excuse for what he did.

As for the Bajoran resistance: At least, for their part, they confined their attacks to Cardassians who lived within the Bajoran system. Most Bajorans, like Kira and Shakaar, never intended to wipe out the entire Cardassian species; they just wanted them to leave Bajor. And once that objective was achieved, they stopped what they were doing. They did not attack any Cardassians who didn't live on or near Bajor. I have to give them props for that, at least.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That argument assumes the absolute, unconditional right of government to rule over non-consenting states.

'Legal right' has always been in the hands of the most well armed party. They used to invoke divine privilege to justify exercising power, and saying 'Legal right is equal to moral right' is basically a modernly acceptable version of the same thing. It's the Socratic argument of 'Morality is the correct judgment of the state'.

So if that's your argument, for your sake I hope the government never hands you a cup of hemlock.

Journey's End was not a Maquis colony, it was a single colony that made a peaceful deal with the Cardassians. The colony from that episode was probably not even wiped out by the Dominion.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That argument assumes the absolute, unconditional right of government to rule over non-consenting states.

What "non-consenting states"? There were no such things. The colonists in the DMZ were Federation citizens, and subject to Federation law. If the Federation tells them to move, they MOVE. If they had not come up with the plan that they did, the Federation would have had the right to remove them by force.

Remember what I said - if this treaty had not been signed, there would have been war with Cardassia. The Federation has the right to consider the greater good, which is avoiding war. I'm not saying those colonists were expendable, as such, but their rights have to be balanced against those of the entire Federation population.

Simply put, the Federation is not, and should not be, obligated to go to war with Cardassia just to placate the wishes of a few hundred colonists. The needs of the many vs. the needs of the one, as it were.

Journey's End was not a Maquis colony

Actually, yes, it was.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

What exactly was the lead up to Terra Prime's terrorist acts?

Because unless they were responding to roving gangs of violent aliens on earth which the govt. somehow refused/failed to stop, I can't see calling them even remotely comparable to the later anti-cardassian movements. The point is that while it may be acceptable in certain situations, you have to be very careful exactly where you draw the line between one situation and another, and simply not liking your neighbors and wanting them to go away isn't anywhere near acceptable.

What caused the rise of Terra Prime was the Xindi attack on Earth. A Xindi sphere emerged out of subspace delivers this attack on Earth killing 7 million people.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8zsdIQe9UQ[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZhJI-6Cbjs[/yt]


The first attack on Earth was a test run. The Xindi were constructing an even larger weapon which would frag the entire planet. The full effect seen here in an alternate timeline.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHCNha9Xxas[/yt]


Archer and crew are successful in stopping the plot and destroying the weapon but an anti-alien sentiment grew on Earth. Terra Prime was a xenophobic group who believed Star Fleet's missions in to space had attracted the attention of the Xindi. Like the US after Pearl Harbor and 9/11, paranoia and hatred against anyone non-human (Vulcans, Tellarites, Androians, Denobuloans etc) festered. Terra Prime wanting all non-humans to leave Earth and for Star Fleet to cease it's space explorations. Paxton (Peter Weller who was also Admiral Marcus in STID) threatened to destroy Starfleet command if they didn't comply. Paxton and his followers concerns that Starfleet's continued missions would attract more hostile aliens to Earth.

I had a vague recollection that was the case. It pretty much confirms my initial reaction that the two storylines aren't comparable in the first place: Terra Prime was deliberating targeting random bystanders who literally had no connection whatsoever to the events they were responding to (I don't believe there was much of a Xindi community on Earth, right?)

I saw an interview with Ira Steven Behr once - he said he really felt like they came down on the side of terrorists in DS9 and that he was glad they got to tell those stories, because he didn't think they would've been allowed to do that after 9/11.

The problem with sticking to a pre/post 9/11 analysis, though, is there just hasn't been enough 'post' ST to really match the earlier samples. Is Terra Prime really even close enough to earlier examples to be comparable?

The Maquis and the Bajoran Resistance formed in response to unprovoked military and paramilitary assaults. Murder, invasion, oppression, kidnapping, bombs, etc. They're morally acceptable because their offensive actions are (in the larger picture) still taken in communal self-defense. I didn't see a lot of ENT, but the lines I remember hearing about 'earth-firsters' on that show were much more along the lines of people who just didn't like the fact that aliens existed and that the govt. chose to allow some of them to live on earth. What exactly was the lead up to Terra Prime's terrorist acts?

Because unless they were responding to roving gangs of violent aliens on earth which the govt. somehow refused/failed to stop, I can't see calling them even remotely comparable to the later anti-cardassian movements. The point is that while it may be acceptable in certain situations, you have to be very careful exactly where you draw the line between one situation and another, and simply not liking your neighbors and wanting them to go away isn't anywhere near acceptable.

there have been many oppressed groups throughout Earth's history that haven't turned to mass terrorism and murder of innocents: Blacks in the US during slavery or Jim Crow, American Indians in the 19th century, Jews in Europe for a number of different periods, Gypsies, etc.

Jews and Gypsies in europe have pretty much always been horribly outnumbered and in a poor position to even try anything whether they wanted to or not. There were black uprisings during slavery and they could get very ugly, but they were small and ineffective largely because slaves were deliberately kept uneducated. Many American indian tribes did go to war with the us (and before that, the colonists) and it was most certainly not unheard of for them to kill civilians and use tactics that would basically be considered terrorism, but again, they were technologically outmatched and ultimately doomed, so it's easy for history to ignore it. Terrorism isn't just about planting bombs.

Does a "cause" give you free reign to use whatever tactics you want and does that allow you to claim sympathy? Terrorism is defined as deliberately targeting innocents and non-military objectives to spread fear. One can take up arms in defense and not use deliberately immoral tactics.

On the other hand, war is always hell. If your cause actually is just, is it really so wrong to just go for the jugular and try to get it over with sooner rather than later? For that matter, if your cause actually is just, is your distaste for certain methods of killing people in comparison to other methods of killing people really worth certain defeat?

As for the Maquis, they didn't have much of a cause in my view. They chose to live under the Cardassians and leave the UFP when they could have easily re-located to another planet. They chose violence over relatively painless resettlement.

I actually tend to agree with this, but they did at least have a legitimate grievance, whereas the Terra Prime group has nothing but bigotry and fear.

Well, there's a big difference between terrorism and guerilla warfare, although sometimes it can be blurry. I don't think the Bajorans or Maqui were terrrorists.

For example, are the Maqui blowing up Cardassian weapons and ships, or houses and schools? There's a big difference, but then the if the Cardassian's start storing their weapons in schools, it's really blurry about how far some are willing to go and how much they want to use noncombatant civillians as meat shields.

Also, a freedom fighter doesn't blow his ass up in a crowd of people. You don't fight for freedom by taking away everyone else's.

The Bajorans and the Maquis both targeted civilians on a number of occassions. We've seen any number of stories about how the Bajorans treated 'collaborators', not to mention stories of dead Cardassian civilians (I believe Kira's response was something like 'They never should have been here in the first place!'). And Eddington's Maquis launched biological weapons against a civilian population. Also, terrorism isn't automatically confined to people who only attack civilians. Terrorists attacked the USS Cole and terrorists attack military patrols and military bases all the time. It's not just bombs in diners and hijacking planes.

 

[T'Girl]

.

I don't think the [snip] Maqui were terrrorists.

The Maquis poisoned a Cardassian planet with a civilian population.

I can sympathize with the Maquis cause. I see it as a libertarian stand that their territory did not belong to the UFP to give away.

Actually, yes it did. Not only was the DMZ actually part of Federation territory to begin with ...

The impression I receive was the it was neither Federation nor Cardassian territory, but rather contested space inbetween the two that both wanted to obtain for themselves. After fight for years to get the entire area, they finally decided to divide it between them.

The colonists in the DMZ were Federation citizens ...

Who had colonized a planet outside of the Federation.

If I relocate to a foreign county (retaining my American citizenship), some American laws would still apply to me, but some would not, owing to me not being inside America.

Journey's End was not a Maquis colony

Actually, yes, it was.

Not at the time of the episode though.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I had a vague recollection that was the case. It pretty much confirms my initial reaction that the two storylines aren't comparable in the first place: Terra Prime was deliberating targeting random bystanders who literally had no connection whatsoever to the events they were responding to (I don't believe there was much of a Xindi community on Earth, right?)

Terra Prime wasn't about hating only Xindi. It was about mistrusting all aliens, preserving the human race from integrating with other species (human/alien hybrids) and protecting Earth humans from unknown aliens out there in the galaxy they may also want to attack Earth. Season 4 of ENT was the beginning of Earth moving toward Coalition of Planets, which would eventually become the UFP. Terra Prime didn't target humans only aliens living on Earth. They didn't really kill any aliens. They gave them a grace period for all non humans to leave Earth or face retaliation. Although there were mobs of angry human protesters outside the embassies of alien delegates/ambassadors; chanting for them to leave Earth.

If you've never watched ENT and want to get the full story of the Xindi and Terra Prime watch these episodes

Spoiler: Xindi Arc and Terra Prime

Season 2
"The Expanse"

All of season 3 is one arc featuring the Xindi. I'll highlight the most important episodes since there are some tangents this season.
The Xindi
Anomaly
Raijiin
Impulse
Exile
The Shipment
Twilight
Similitude
Carpenter Street
Chosen Realm
Proving Ground
Stratagem
Harbringer
Azati Prime
Damage
The Forgotten
E²
The Council
Countdown
Zero Hour

You can skip Extinction, North Star (Trek's Firefly), Doctor's Orders (Same episode a "One" on Voyager) and Hatchery. They stall the action of the story.

Season 4
Storm Front I-II
Home
Demons
Terra Prime

All available on Netflix, so it's accessible if you don't have the DVD's.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

On the other hand, war is always hell. If your cause actually is just, is it really so wrong to just go for the jugular and try to get it over with sooner rather than later? For that matter, if your cause actually is just, is your distaste for certain methods of killing people in comparison to other methods of killing people really worth certain defeat?

There are always rules in war. There are certain lines you just don't cross. Ever.

If your "cause" requires that you do so, then you don't deserve to win.

 

[Marsden]

The Bajorans and the Maquis both targeted civilians on a number of occassions. We've seen any number of stories about how the Bajorans treated 'collaborators', not to mention stories of dead Cardassian civilians (I believe Kira's response was something like 'They never should have been here in the first place!'). QUOTE]

The Maquis poisoned a Cardassian planet with a civilian population.

Sorry, bad memory, you're both right.

I think I probably should stick to the episodes I know better.