Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoilers

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Bones, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Mod Awakens Moderator

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    When ST09 came out it was the first entry in a new, young, hip reboot of the franchise. Now it's an established film series, so it's probably not going to have quite the same level of excitement with the younger crowd as the first did. That's all just pure speculation on my part, but I think it makes sense.

    Because he's trying to save seven billion people by stopping Zod, his henchmen, and the world engine (on opposing sides of the planet, mind you). When you're dealing with a threat of that scope, and bad guys as powerful as you are, you don't always have the time or ability to deal with saving individuals. The bigger picture is at stake. After the threat to the planet was removed and all the henchmen are sent into the Phantom Zone except Zod, Superman is able to help people on an individual basis.

    As for the second part, what is this need for everything to be explicitly spelled out to people? Just because they didn't mourn the massive and almost unfathomable loss of life in Metropolis doesn't mean no one cared, it just means having an endless series of memorials is not really cinematic and is kind of a downer, especially when you want to end your superhero movie on a message of hope (a recurring theme in the film).

    Likewise, STiD wanted to end on a message of rebuilding (the city, the Enterprise, Kirk's confidence...) and returning to the exploration they were meant to do from the start. Delving into the memorials even more than they did would again be a total down note to end the movie on. They wanted to end on something hopeful.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
  2. I am not Spock

    I am not Spock Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    I have no idea why. I don't have much interest in superhero movies, or Fast and Furious movies, and it baffles me why they make so much money effortlessly at the box office.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Probably because they are just fun.

    You get some destruction, the hero beats the piss out of the bad guy and gets the girl at the end. It's simply a formula that works.

    Audiences still aren't convinced Star Trek can do that consistently. Plus you have the brigade that badmouths when a girl is in her underwear for ten seconds and many of the bad stereotypes associated with Trek come rushing back.
     
  4. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Right. What bugged me about the 78 movie is that Supes has time to go around and save people all over the place while handling Luthor's real-estate scam. It's hard enough to care for an invulnerable character without having to suffer through infinite selflessness. The man's still got to prioritise. Or are we to believe that no one dies when Superman's around ? ;)

    The move I think about Man of Steel and the more I like it.

    Well I like all of that, myself. Superheroes, robots, spaceships, aliens, fast vehicles, cityscape devastation, laser weapons...

    ...and if you add that all up together, it reads "Grendizer", the anime I grew up with when I was a toddler. :)
     
  5. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Yes, it's fucking endless, isn't it? Therefore, no part of it is particularly important or remarkable.

    Uh-huh. The manger stuff is just prologue for Jesus, but for some reason it's the reason for one of the more popular holidays in a number of countries.
     
  6. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Well, it's not really endless. There were a few seasons, a few movies, and now a few more movies. Regardless, whether it ends or doesn't end doesn't make it remarkable or unremarkable. Quality is what does that.

    As for the Christmas thing, your mileage may vary. Catholics tend to be more into Jesus' humanity and sacrifice, while non-Catholic Christian denominations often focus more on his feats. Regardless, most of them are more about what Jesus did as an adult, rather than what happened in a manger.
     
  7. DarthTom

    DarthTom Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    I thought of an alternative explination as well. Trek just couldn't compete for teenagers with limited movie going $$ and time who had the choice of: Trek, Iron Man and Fast Furious. IM and Fast and Furious just more appealing choices for the younger crowd.
     
  8. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Congratulations on missing the point in a rather spectacular way.

    What Christians believe or don't doesn't interest me. Christmas is, however, a pretty goddamned big deal over a pretty big chunk of this planet - even among a lot of non-Christians. Mary and Joseph and those shepherds do pretty damned well, two thousand years later, for a "prologue."

    Anyway, you don't get Superman so of course you don't understand the story's appeal. Obviously a lot more other people do than give a fuck right now about Star Trek.
     
  9. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    I'd say my giant collection of Superman comics, most of which don't feature Jor-El in any capacity, suggest I do get Superman and that the Krypton stuff - beyond his being a survivor of a doomed planet - is just a prologue. But hey, don't let me slow down your need to be arrogant and annoying.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  10. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Makes sense, though I'm sure a crowded marketplace isn't the only reason for those movies doing better.
     
  11. Ryan8bit

    Ryan8bit Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    I think people celebrate Christmas for the same reason that Christians incorporated all the pagan rituals that had nothing to do with Jesus' birth, which really isn't that great of a story. I can't speak for Superman, but Jesus' story is definitely not about the origin.
     
  12. CDR6

    CDR6 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    As much as I hate Abrams... (He has made a boat load of money with Star Trek.) The problem is that Paramont is trying to jamb a square peg (Star Trek television) into a round hole (Movies). Then get up set because no matter how hard they hit the thing...it won't work. They can't figure it out that some things just don't translate well... the way as same books to movies and vice a versa.
     
  13. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    No, and no.

    No, they're succeeding at satisfying the vast majority of the Trek fan base while extending the appeal of the Franchise quite a bit - especially internationally. So it does work, and there's nothing here that they can't "figure out."
     
  14. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    I think it works, it just doesn't work as well as stuff like Iron Man or Superman does. There's success and then there's the kind of success that Robert Downey Jr has.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Is the problem Paramount or a select group of fandom that can't let their vision of Star Trek go?

    To claim a movie that has made over $400 million worldwide is "Paramount trying to jam a square peg into a round hole" seems off the mark. Star Trek can work on the big screen its been proven on multiple occasions even before Abrams came along.
     
  16. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Exactly so.
     
  17. CDR6

    CDR6 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    All living things evolve. You can't have old Trek anymore, if for no other reason than some of the TOS cast are no longer with us... Duh? As long as Abrams makes money they're going to hand him a new hammer, with out regard to product.

    Studios are about money. If a film clears costs it's a success as far as the studio is concerned. How big a success remains to be seen when the finial tally is in. In the world of film story is all. Regardless of ones like of lens flair and exploshions or not.

    In the real world of film some things just don't translate from one medium to another, I wish it were other wise, but that is not the way things work.
     
  18. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    It's translating just fine.
     
  19. CDR6

    CDR6 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Ah, no. Not so much...
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Can you actually show where the translation fails? Most TOS films were in the top-10 the year they we made as were Generations and First Contact.

    TOS was never an ensemble piece, it was always the Kirk and Spock show and the Kirk and Spock show has always translated well to the big-screen.
     

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