Vulcan had planetary unity, globalisation, one world government for almost 2000 Earth years so the culture is less diverse compared to Earth.
What's in YOUR 'head canon'?
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On Earth there are caves that have existed for many thousands of years, you are probably safer in a cave during a major earthquake than you would be in many buildings. The problem in ST'09 was the planet was collapsing.
By staying where they were, the Vulcan elders (in)action was logical.
Is that part of your head canon, or were you pulling that from a episode?
^My head canon based on the theory that what contributes to mankind being separate and nationalistic for so long is that our oceans encourages seperation even with modern tech in travel and information. Vulcan has more land mass than water and only one sea, the Voroth Sea, this should make it easier to travel around the globe and meet other tribes, probably easier to spread Surak's message of peace, especially since they had nuclear weapons and our version of 20th/21st century tech when parts of Earth were ruled by the Roman empire or still living in caves.
Sometimes, like now, the quote function doesn't work, so Nerys Mek... Your quotes are very familiar to me, and they don't mean what you think. All Our Yest's: 5000 years ago, Vulcans were barbarians, SO WERE WE. Sarek is capable of killing in the same sense that he is probably capable of tying his shoes. He has an ability to defend himself if necessary. He's not some habitual murderer.
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All flesh and blood beings feel. Again, I'm NOT part of this ridiculous cartoonish black-and-white fan argument between two silly extremes... between (1) Vulcan are blank of all feeling like robots and (2) Vulcans feel everything even MORE than we do. I'm saying a THIRD thing, which was the original intent in TOS... they reduce and suppress what they feel as a mental discipline. Pay attention to TOS, and you'll notice line after line after line about Vulcans feeling less. You'll even hear them claiming to feel nothing, but long term, it becomes clear that it's not so total and absolute, and it couldn't be. Flesh and blood humanoids will always naturally feel, but the extreme mental discipline to replace feeling with logic does change who and what Vulcans are. The state of mind is drastically different than ours as a result. They wouldn't care about a discipline that just makes them not act out on violent impulses, and makes them show no emotion in their faces while still feeling it all just as deeply as ever. Why would they? Who cares what their face muscles look like? What would that accomplish? And controlling violent or irrational impulses MEANS controlling the MIND, first. On Earth, in real life, there are many mental disciplines, meditation etc... this is another. It would be a bizarre decision to devote a society to maintaining mental and emotional chaos inside, while caring only that it doesn't show in their actions. Actions aren't necessary the most important thing. How you experience life, your mental life, is #1.
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Later Trek series de-emphasized Vulcans and the idea of Vulcans, and got sloppy when portraying them, muddying the ideas because a lot of people don't care for the whole concept, especially the inherent criticism of the violence of the human race. I would get the idea Rick Berman probably wished he could get rid of them entirely...
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So many people these days, I think, hear "emotion" and think of someone yelling, jumping up and down, hitting, "getting all emotional" as people say. The popular meaning has drifted. Emotion itself is the feeling, not the resulting behavior. That changes everything you hear in TOS, if you think emotion is actions.
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All flesh and blood beings feel. Again, I'm NOT part of this ridiculous cartoonish black-and-white fan argument between two silly extremes... between (1) Vulcan are blank of all feeling like robots and (2) Vulcans feel everything even MORE than we do. I'm saying a THIRD thing, which was the original intent in TOS... they reduce and suppress what they feel as a mental discipline. Pay attention to TOS, and you'll notice line after line after line about Vulcans feeling less. You'll even hear them claiming to feel nothing, but long term, it becomes clear that it's not so total and absolute, and it couldn't be. Flesh and blood humanoids will always naturally feel, but the extreme mental discipline to replace feeling with logic does change who and what Vulcans are. The state of mind is drastically different than ours as a result. They wouldn't care about a discipline that just makes them not act out on violent impulses, and makes them show no emotion in their faces while still feeling it all just as deeply as ever. Why would they? Who cares what their face muscles look like? What would that accomplish? And controlling violent or irrational impulses MEANS controlling the MIND, first. On Earth, in real life, there are many mental disciplines, meditation etc... this is another. It would be a bizarre decision to devote a society to maintaining mental and emotional chaos inside, while caring only that it doesn't show in their actions. Actions aren't necessary the most important thing. How you experience life, your mental life, is #1.
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Later Trek series de-emphasized Vulcans and the idea of Vulcans, and got sloppy when portraying them, muddying the ideas because a lot of people don't care for the whole concept, especially the inherent criticism of the violence of the human race. I would get the idea Rick Berman probably wished he could get rid of them entirely...
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So many people these days, I think, hear "emotion" and think of someone yelling, jumping up and down, hitting, "getting all emotional" as people say. The popular meaning has drifted. Emotion itself is the feeling, not the resulting behavior. That changes everything you hear in TOS, if you think emotion is actions.
Yes, rather than just control of behavior.
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Some of those quotes seem a bit overstated, but are basically in line with what I am saying.
Starfleet defends the Federation and explores space
Planetary forces defend local land based systems
E.G Starfleet in space defends the Sol system and is diverse
Earth forces on land defends Earth is for Earth citizens (human or otherwise) only to join
Planetary forces defend local land based systems
E.G Starfleet in space defends the Sol system and is diverse
Earth forces on land defends Earth is for Earth citizens (human or otherwise) only to join
A little bit of something I just wrote in "Alien hybrids" thread...
I like to live in a bubble where all "halfbreeds" are "products" of help from genetic specialists, it couldn't happen naturally.
I like to live in a bubble where all "halfbreeds" are "products" of help from genetic specialists, it couldn't happen naturally.
Did someone say he was? The point is Vulcans can and will kill or use violence is there is a logical reason to do so. Spock was more than willing to kill Gary Mitchell, because it was the logical action. Sarek could have killed Gav, if there was a logical reason.
Not sure why you're talking about expressing emotions through action or expression. The point is Vulcans suppress their emotions.. When that control slips, as it did in Amok Time, All Our Yesterdays, The Naked Time and This Side of Paradise we see how deep those emotion run. The result is pretty violent. Monitor crushing violent. Attempted murder violent. Tray of plomeek across the room violent.
They barely used Vulcans in TNG and DS9. Probably at the direction of Gene Roddenberry in trhe case of the former.
Come on, two of the three shows created by Berman featured Vulcans as main characters. Funny way to de-emphasize or get rid of them.
Yeah, the Vulcans can be used to criticize violence, but Star Trek it's self has a message of violence not being the answer. That message often comes from the human characters. At the same time Vulcans can be used to criticize the disconnected and dispassionate approach. More often than not you'll see Spock's logical and emotionless is "wrong". The prime example of this is The Galileo Seven.
It's both. It's always been both. The inner feeling and the outward expression.
The writers and actors of TOS were perfectly aware of what they were doing. Nothing is changed. There's a reason acting is called emoting.
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For me , JJ Abrams's "Trek" had nothing to do with the Trek that I know. His films start and end in a alternate universe. He created another alternate universe from another alternate universe. If and when we go back to mainline Trek , I honestly hope this is really considered.
As I mentioned in another thread, the Romulans are my favorite rival to the Federation. In the Next Generation episodes we learn that the Romulans have a duel nature. The military / Tal Shair and the less extreme civilian underground movement. I like the duel nature of their culture. One side, they fight to expand through the military , the other side is sick of military and want reunification. I didn't like the idea of destroying Romulus. That undermined what happened in Trek's past and where Trek could go in the future.
I dislike the fact even more when I play Star Trek Online, they followed the 2009 film. I honestly hope when Star Trek moves forward in terms of a series post Star Trek Nemesis , Abrams 's films are 100% ignored.
Overall , Star Trek ends when Riker leads the task force for the Romulan peace talks.
As I mentioned in another thread, the Romulans are my favorite rival to the Federation. In the Next Generation episodes we learn that the Romulans have a duel nature. The military / Tal Shair and the less extreme civilian underground movement. I like the duel nature of their culture. One side, they fight to expand through the military , the other side is sick of military and want reunification. I didn't like the idea of destroying Romulus. That undermined what happened in Trek's past and where Trek could go in the future.
I dislike the fact even more when I play Star Trek Online, they followed the 2009 film. I honestly hope when Star Trek moves forward in terms of a series post Star Trek Nemesis , Abrams 's films are 100% ignored.
Overall , Star Trek ends when Riker leads the task force for the Romulan peace talks.
The Roddenberry-verse, Meyer-verse, Berman-verse and Abrams-verse are all part of the fictional multiverse created by Benny Russell. So, by the way, is the Kelley-verse (Boston Legal). Sometimes, there's contact or slippage between the universes, which is why Denny Crane remembers being captain of a starship.
And while I'm on the subject of Boston Legal, Clarence and Claire both work in the New York office now, and they're still together.
And while I'm on the subject of Boston Legal, Clarence and Claire both work in the New York office now, and they're still together.
I thought the destruction of Romulus came from a comic book before the 2009 movie existed? So why blame Abrams for that idea?
Looks like the conversation here's no longer about headcanon, but just in case, something else from mine:
The Yoda statue outside what had been the Industrial Light & Magic facility at the Presidio remains there long after ILM moves or folds, and is kept on the grounds when Starfleet Academy is built there. Throughout the 22nd, 23rd and 24th centuries, it becomes the unofficial patron saint and mascot of the Academy.
The Yoda statue outside what had been the Industrial Light & Magic facility at the Presidio remains there long after ILM moves or folds, and is kept on the grounds when Starfleet Academy is built there. Throughout the 22nd, 23rd and 24th centuries, it becomes the unofficial patron saint and mascot of the Academy.
If it's DS9, you can usually assume it's gibberishmade up by the scriptwriters. The only exception I can think of is Qoy qeylIS puqloD ("Hear, sons of Kahless", the warrior anthem), which originated in the game Star Trek: Klingon, which Okrand supervised on.
I wrote about the opera in Looking for Par'Mach in All the Wrong Places here: http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/lets-talk-about-klingon-opera.284545/#post-11800438
The election of a US President garners no fanfare whatsoever from the rest of the Federation or even Earth
In my personal head canon the Franz Joseph Starfleet designs are canon. Other than that not much.
Wait, how does Tommy Westphall fit into this?
He has large snow globe collection.
I like his idea that the Federation government and Starfleet academy were both located on a giant space station, and not on a planet.
My take, while of course they are members of the Federation, being a member of the Federation doesn't define these planets.
For the most part they take care of their own affairs and they have a lot of other things going on other than "just" being Federation members. To most of the people on these planets, their planet being in the Federation is a inconsequential part of their lives.
Don't forget the "Crane-verse," Fraser Crane also remembers being the captain of a starship.
Both Earth and the Federation acknowledge and celebrate the Republic's orderly and peaceful transition of power between two opposing factions.
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Why should the rest of the Federation care who the President of the USA is? In the ST universe there is no one human superpower. The rest of Earth might have as much interest as they do who is the Prime Minister of India. And by then places like India and China might be the new superpowers. The Western influence over Earth culture is due for an implosion.
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