Vic Fontaine almost ruined DS9.

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by mattpa, Mar 14, 2024.

  1. ED-209

    ED-209 Commodore Commodore

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    Jen Lien wishes she had a rack like that.
     
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  2. Michael

    Michael Good Bad Influence Moderator

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    Hey, stay classy!
     
  3. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder if the ocarina is part of Odo.
     
  4. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I liked Vic and I also liked "His Way" even though I didn't like KIra and Odo as a romantic couple. I liked it better when Odo had it be a unrequited love.
     
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  5. JHarper

    JHarper Commander Red Shirt

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    Honestly I think only "Our Man Bashir" really worked for me in terms of DS9's holo-shenanigans. All the stuff about the Battle of Britain or the Alamo were just whatever, and Vic's was also kinda just fine. Darren's a good actor, and "It's Only a Paper Moon" is fantastic but beyond that I don't think his program really added much and I could've done with something other "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang", or hanging out there in the finale.
     
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  6. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Now that is a very interesting question! :)
     
  7. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If nothing else, Vic's worth it for "Paper Moon" as much as Ezri's worth it for finally being the person who tells it like it is regarding the Klingon Empire to Worf. Both are among DS9's finest moments and wouldn't have worked as well under other circumstances.
     
  8. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    "Punks prefer the belchers" - Qonundrum, 2024

    :guffaw:
     
  9. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Vice Admiral Admiral

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    On DS9, the least loved characters still did the most remarkable things.
     
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  10. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I loved Vic
     
  11. JoseNoodles

    JoseNoodles Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I just saw "His Way", and I came to the realization that this episode is basically a musical with Vic doing most (but not all) the singing. While I wouldn't say Vick is my favorite character, he was the closest the show had to a counselor until Ezri showed up. Even then, he still probably did more counseling, since most of Ezri's storylines didn't really make too much use of her profession.
     
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  12. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    After absorbing eight new personalities (including a murderer) with zero training, she was probably more neurotic than her patients.
     
  13. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    For the first few months, yes. But she settled down.
     
  14. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Mainly because with the war on and cycling up to the final conclusion, they couldn't keep focusing on Ezri being emo.
     
  15. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sometimes I wonder whether she should have been brought in at all. (I'm not talking about the actress, just the character.) Personally I didn't see that much added value in having some teenage /young adult angst blended into this DS9 apotheotic season - there was enough 'soap' to go around already in my view. But I guess those are just my personal tastes :)

    Never had a particular liking for Vic - but then again, I never lived in either the country or the era that shaped him, so I saw him as a bit of an writer's indulgence and filler - though I have to admit that sometimes he was put to very good use (e.g. in 'it's only a paper moon'), and he gradually seemed to take on some properties of a counsellor.
     
  16. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    I don't wonder. I know. Killing off Jadzia was a deplorable act in itself. Just replacing her right away was worse. Talk about trivializing a character's death!
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^I don't understand this argument. The Trill were, from their first appearance, set up as a species that could, in a unique sense, be immortal after a fashion via their symbiotes. It sounds as though you're penalizing DS9 for taking advantage of the one thing the Trill have that most fundamentally sets them apart from humans. They even did it in an unorthodox manner by offering us a host who not only had no training in what it would mean to be Joined but didn't even really want to be Joined.
     
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed, yes. That was an essential part of Jadzia's character. But, she had described it often enough; we didn't need to see it in action.

    I'm penalizing DS9 primarily for killing Jadzia Dax. Bringing her back in a new body was lousy, but secondary.

    And not giving this new Dax time to properly develop. If they had done an 8th season, at least that could have been ameliorated.
     
  19. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    Given that Farrell would not be returning, I don't see what else the writers could have done but kill Jadzia. Otherwise, why would she leave Worf, when they were hoping to have a child? Why would she leave the station and the friends she had there?
     
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  20. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    The story of Farrell leaving isn’t clear, but one claim (that she made) was she wanted to renew contact but do fewer episodes for season 7. That could have been easily accommodated - especially in a series as rich with recurring characters as ds9 was. It’s quite normal nowadays to have billed main characters doing fewer episodes, but even back then it wasn’t unknown - not just with kids, but Sirtis missed several first season TNG episodes for example.

    There are Plenty of opportunities to drop her presence to say half the episodes. You could beef up Garak or Leeta or Kassidy’s presence or introduce a new character if you really wanted. Many characters have a token presence in many trek episodes, where they have 3 or 4 characters in the same scene with just one line each.

    Jadzia could have been off station for a while doing a secret mission, or commanding a ship, or doing something in the wormhole, or just not show her. No need to make her pregnant, and even if she were who knows how long a Klingon/Trill gestation takes.

    You could even have killed her off in the final chapter - have Worf be forced to leave her behind to accomplish the mission or something, showing he has learned since change of heart.
     
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