TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by Jetfire, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. T'Cal

    T'Cal Commodore Commodore

    Sep 21, 2003
    No doubt First Contact was the best of the lot but I wish TNG had remained on TV. FC could've been a great MFTV movie or even a miniseries. After AGT, I wish TNG had returned as an 8-12 hour annual miniseries that included characters from DS9 and VOY. Ensemble Trek (TNG, DS9, VOY, & ENT) work much better on the small screen where there is time to tell a story that involves more than two or three good guys and a bad guy. I would've left TOS with Kirk, Spock & Bones at the theatre. TNG movies just weren't as good as or were no better than a majority of its TV episodes.
  2. Jonesy

    Jonesy Commodore Commodore

    Jan 7, 2003
    Well said. While I think that some of the people involved in the Next Gen. films did the best job that they could, under the circumstances, I still find all of the films to be lacking. Even the often-mentioned First Contact, which while having a great soundtrack, could have been much more.

    I still think that Star Trek, at the point that the TNG films were being produced, was completely straightjacketed as a huge and successful franchise and cash-cow. And one where everything had to be micro-managed, most notably the scripts.
  3. M-Red

    M-Red Commander Red Shirt

    May 26, 2009
    By and large, the first two entries are enjoyable to me. They have their problems, but so did the TOS movies.

    TNG needed to take a risk after FC. Make the third film a cliffhanger. Have some foresight and some confidence and set up a trilogy so TNG and 24th century Trek could go out with a bang.

    Drop the Action Picard stuff and craft a smart story in which JLP acts like JLP. Give Riker the Titan command after FC. Put Worf back on DS9 and incorporate the broader Trek universe. Give us a complex villain with many shades of grey....let the baddies "win" the first movie ala "BoBW" or Empire Strikes Back. Something. Mix it up. Just be creative and take a chance with some innovative concepts. The TOS movie franchise did just that -- more than once. And it usually paid off for them.

    TNG deserved that too and it seemed like TPTB became cautious and content....and the movie franchise went stale. They needed to be innovative following the success of First Contact. Instead, it seemed like just settled for an elaborate two-part episode and then mailed it in with the last one.

    It's a shame, especially since TNG is perhaps the most successful sci-fi TV series of all time. So yes, we missed out (past tense) because that ship has sailed and we're definitely in JJ-Trek mode now.
  4. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    I agree and I must also note that Insurrection at least made the effort of trying to be fun.

    But it actually wasn't that much fun. It was kind of preachy and heavy handed at times.
  5. T'Cal

    T'Cal Commodore Commodore

    Sep 21, 2003
    Fun?? FUN?? Didn't you like Data's:
    • Mr. Tricorder
    • ...but the Ferengi in the Gorilla suit has to go.
    • Humor! I love it!
    • Lifeforms, you tiny little lifeforms...
    • No problem!
    • Oh shit!
    • ...and his lip should curl...
    • A pimple, sir.
    • Have you noticed how your boobs...
    • Never saw the sun shining so bright...
    • Why does the big man have a furry face?
    • Why? Why? Why?
    • Move, puny human animal!
    How about Worf's wacky lines:
    • (falling into freezing cold water and growling)
    • It is a gorch!
    • Sir! I am experiencing aggressive tendencies!
    • Romulan Ale should be illegal.
    • Irving Berlin!
    • (bumping his head as he awoke from oversleeping)
    • Captain, I do not think it is appropriate for a Starfleet officer to appear ...naked.
    Humor is a difficult concept for Trek to handle successfully. Each of the movies would've benefitted greatly if they hadn't tried so hard to be funny. Data and Worf are among the richest characters in all of Trek yet in the movies Worf the great Klingon warrior was turned into a buffoon and Data the super intelligent android was made out to be a clown. Awkward moments and fish out of water experiences can be funny but these lines were painful to hear.
  6. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 18, 2001
    Ontario, Canada
    I don't think Worf's lines were out of character at all.
    The way he handled Molly's birth, prune juice the warrior's drink, he is not a merry man, Worf was often about the one-liners. Some just happened to work better than others, but it definitely was part of his character.
  7. T'Cal

    T'Cal Commodore Commodore

    Sep 21, 2003
    On the TV show it was done on occasion and it worked partly because of that. In the movies it was overdone and less successful.
  8. Jonesy

    Jonesy Commodore Commodore

    Jan 7, 2003
    But that is part of the problem. Trek - and TNG in particular - was not allowed to change or take risks, because it was a hit. Plain and simple. It was a Paramount cash-cow. The powers-that-be made sure it rode enough of a safe line.

    Generations and Insurrection were fraught with studio influence and meddling. Nemesis was a pile of garbage helmed by a really bad director and equally bad screenwriter. First Contact is the only one of the four films that ended up being solid enough to enjoy and appreciate as a decent film. But that is at least partly due to the fact that the "baddie" was the Borg - a good choice but also a fairly safe choice for all involved in the films to choose.
  9. Jonesy

    Jonesy Commodore Commodore

    Jan 7, 2003
    If Patrick Stewart had not interfered (and insisted on a "light" third TNG film) we may have had Michael Pillers initial draft for Insurrection, rather than the forgettable film that we were handed.
  10. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 2, 2009
    Are swollen hands, Wiktor, Wiktor and Pegg in a pipe really better than Mr. Tricorder?

    And it was actually Piller himself who thought that First Contact was too dark and wanted to do a lighter movie, and it was Berman who didn't like his first draft. And the problem of the first draft was essentially that the characters got very young in it, so that they would have needed to recast Picard, Riker & Co.

    And Stewart didn't want to turn Picard into an action hero, he simply wanted to get rid of the "Captain stays on the bridge during missions" thing.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  11. Jonesy

    Jonesy Commodore Commodore

    Jan 7, 2003
    That isn't as I heard it, and I don't understand why Piller would write a dark script, and then scrap it at the end simply because it was dark.
    I am not sure if we're talking about the same script. (which probably explains the mis-communication above) The original version (perhaps I should have used the word "version" instead of "draft) of "Insurrection" was sort of Trek doing Apocalypse Now. It was Picard hunting down and destroying Data. The script was completely re-written. IIRC, the original version had nothing to do with the Baku, the crew getting young, ect ect.
    That was taken care of by the second season of the series. Again, I don't think we're on the same page on any of this at all. Where did I bring up anything about Stewart wanting to be an action hero?
  12. Landed

    Landed Lieutenant

    Aug 16, 2010
    I had always felt that the main problem with most of these movies was a real lack of moving on. You get the feeling with the TOS films that a significant amount of time had passed between each one (aside form TWOK/TSFS/TVH). Characters had moved on and yet were drawn back together. Each movie felt like a homecoming.

    With the TNG movies, it felt like I was tuning into the TV yet again.
  13. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

    Aug 17, 2001
    Hollywood, CA
    About the only thing I feel we missed out on, besides good parts in these films for Troi, Geordi, Crusher and Riker, was simply more time to see the Enterprise-D on the big screen.
  14. Joe_Atari

    Joe_Atari Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Feb 28, 2007
    The thing that strikes me in hindsight with all seven seasons of the show and four movies behind us (in some cases gratefully behind us) -- and helped a bit by RedLetterMedia's great YouTube reviews -- is how much budgetary considerations probably led to the disconnect between the show and the films. Watching the series again you start to appreciate how much money Picard's restrained, "Ask questions first, conference, shoot later but probably not" approach saved the production. It amazes me how much of TNG was two characters pretty much just talking to each other (I'm typing this after watching "The Enemy" for the first time in years). Not that that's a bad thing at all but once they had money in the films we got action-hero Picard, lots of splosions, Borgs, dune buggies (still scratching my head about that one), etc.

    I think this is why Generations is my favorite TNG film; for all its faults it looked and felt the most like a continuation of the show. After that (IMHO) the Enterprise got ugly, the uniforms got ugly, everything went dark and drab, and TNG became something unrecognizable to me.
  15. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Aug 1, 2008
    Picard the action hero only made sense to me in First Contact. Frankly, I found it made no sense for him to be the one to stay on the Ba'ku planet and defend them while Riker goes to convince the Federation Council. Picard is the seasoned diplomat, if someone's going to convince the Council to reverse the decision, it should have been him while Riker stayed behind and defended the Ba'ku.

    Of course, I still say that we should have had the Battle for Betazed as the ninth movie instead of Insurrection...
  16. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 2, 2009
    Aww come on. When has Picard ever been an action hero in the movies? Just because he fires a few shots and climbs around a bit. We already had that in the series a couple of times.
  17. swaaye

    swaaye Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Nov 10, 2005
    Indeed. It sure looks good in Generations. Then they figured out the most ridiculous way to blow it up. I kept waiting for them to unload on that BoP. Who needs shields?! Why waste precious time doing a 180 in front of a little ship that can do circles around you anyway? Why "wait to shoot until Data does his hacking"? Just use your arsenal already and slag that obsolete little scout ship. If they had put down fire like back in "The Survivors", BoP would've gone poof. :)

    Now if the Duras sisters had been on a Vorcha-class ship, the scenario would have been much more interesting. I'm sure I've read on this forum that budget problems were the reason for that sad BoP being used. The TV Vorcha model is also likely nowhere near detailed enough for a movie and so they would probably have had to build a new one.

    All of the TNG movies needed better writing though IMO.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  18. crusher

    crusher Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Feb 14, 2009
    First Contact was good yes, except for the whole Data/Borg Queen thing. The movie could have been so much better without all the nonsense. The next two movies were lacking but they hit a homerun with the last movie.
  19. I am not Spock

    I am not Spock Commodore Commodore

    Dec 2, 2001
    TV eps like Captain's Holiday, Gambit, Starship Mine, etc, already had Picard doing the action hero thing, so it wasn't really out of character for him.
  20. indolover

    indolover Fleet Captain

    Jan 23, 2010
    What was wrong with the Picard action hero writing? It gave him more depth as a character. And if thought about it logically, then which captain/CO wouldn't protect his facility if needed? In that sense, all Picard action hero stories were in character.

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