"They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon Bird

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Shat Happens, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    I'm guessing the fullspread line was already there when it was decided to reuse TUC's BOP blast. So where would all the other torpedoes in the spread go, they'd have to animate those going through the stock shot?
     
  2. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    The E is the one built for a widescreen look, the D is practically so squat it is 4:3 like TV was for so long.

    Honestly, if GR hadn't castrated the nacelles on Probert's original concept, it would have probably been fine instead of something I have always hated.
     
  3. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    That's bugged me for years--ever since I heard the story!

    Wait, so the script starts the movie off with a bang Ent-D vs. a Warbird (which was never done in the series) and then Taylor convinces them to ditch that and they come up with a F-ing BS holodeck scenario----a BORING holodeck scenario!????

    Oh well, the movie's final ship vs. ship battle will make up for it!!

    Uh no--no it didn't.

    Why oh why couldn't they have at least used the new Klingon ship it took them 5 years to build??

    Oh wait, they needed to reuse the Trek 6 explosion---that makes sense. :rolleyes:

    Double fail.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  4. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    Yeah the super short nacelles and the super wide main section!! LOL. A ship nearly wider than it is long!

    Attractive profile but ugly from so many other angles.
     
  5. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    And was almost certainly due to increasing pressure from the UPN management to add more of it.

    When you hear how clueless UPN's suits were by the time ENT rolled around it's pretty amazing anything of value was made in the Trek shows under UPN.
     
  6. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    Your post and your avatar go together *so* perfectly. Hat's off to you!
     
  7. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    I've often thought this too. 1994 was the point where Star Trek was united under one banner. No longer were there seperate teams working on the movies independently of the TV show. In one way it made sense because it unifed the brand, but in another way it meant decisions were being made about the movies by "TV people" who were all so used to working on TV scripts, and they brought that kind of limited syndicated TV thinking along with them. It also meant that Berman and his teams were being stretched pretty thin, which had an impact on the TV material as well.

    Say what some might about some of the TOS movies, they all had genuine ambition. The people who made them were thinking "bigger than TV", they were thinking the audience wanted something they couldn't just get on TV. I never felt that Berman's teams were working that way. They seemed to be just churning these movies out like they were all individual episodes of a TV show, trying to meet a predetermined quota for the season. The 'sausage factory' approach that is suited to television production... but these are movies, they've gotta be better than that. :vulcan:

    I'd have rathered the movies were still put together by their own team, independent of the TV shows, who could be autonomous enough to make decisions for a movie audience.
     
  8. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    What? Andy told me that the books have the caption backwards re the final design. He originally had the nacelles shorter, so that the pylon and nacelle would mimic the silhouette of the saucer and the neck, and Gene's two comments on the design were "make the engines longer and put the bridge on top".
     
  9. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    The concept painting Probert did around the time of TMP (which is what I'm thinking of, the one I thought Gerrold took to GR) seemed to have really long nacelles, or that was the impression (it was a mostly front view.)

    I remember talking to Probert briefly back in 97 and 98 and I do recall him saying that except for the STARLOG SPECIAL EFFECTS mag (#3 or #4), pretty much everybody had always screwed up the captions and order of illustrations on his stuff (we were mainly grousing about THE ART OF STAR TREK, no surprise there!), but I didn't think this was part of that mess-up. Was pretty sure the GR rationale for shorter nacelles was to indicate the ship didn't need big nacelles because it was already so powerful (more of a conceptual notion than an aesthetic one IMO.)

    EDIT ADDON: doesn't look like the links are working for the TNG stuff yet on his site. On the home page, there is one batch of e-d concepts that all have shortish nacelles though, so maybe you're right.

    When i bought the model kit, I tried putting the nacelles on backwards just to make the ship longer and I thought it was tons better. Then again, I thought it looked better upside down and minus the dish entirely, too.

    Maybe I better check Probert's site ... I remember it had lots of TNG stuff on it at some point ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  10. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    Oh I see which image you are talking about.

    As to the more refined plans, if the bridge superstructure is missing, it's older. That's the giveaway.
     
  11. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Location:
    Asheville, NC
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    Not to mention the fact that a good chunk of the budget was blown on the holodeck scene. They literally made richly detailed costumes for every TNG actor for this one 10 minute scene, but when it came to the actual uniforms that the cast would be wearing throughout the rest of the movie? Nope. Just make a new uniform for Picard and Data and have everyone else "borrow" uniforms from the DS9 cast. LeVar is pretty short so he should fit perfectly in Colm Meaney's uniform!

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    It's funny how everybody hates that stinking movie, but for different reasons.

    It's been a while since I watched it, but one interesting part that came to my mind now is how extensively Kirk OWNS Picard -- in The Movie Where The Two Captains Meet At Last.

    Picard comes to him with one of his trademarked speeches and he does not give a f*ck. Kirk doesnt stop for a second to listen to him, he makes Picard go after him all around the house, he makes Picard hold his kitchen utensils, he lets Picard talking while he enjoys the eggs, the thoughts about Antonia, the horse riding, he makes Picard ride a horse after him, and when he eventually he decides to go back (bad decision btw), it's not because of all the speech about duty and shit, but because it "sounds like fun". The only part when he bothers to acknowledge Picard is when the latter talks about heroics, and Kirk tells him to shut up because he wrote the book about Star Trek heroics when Grandpa Picard was still in diapers.
     
  13. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Location:
    Asheville, NC
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    SFDebris talks about this in his review and brings up many great points. In the opening, Kirk manages to mount a rescue mission in an unequipped and understaffed ship, rescue 47 people from the doomed ship and sacrifice his life to safe everyone on the Enterprise B.

    When we meet Picard, he is late in rescuing all but one survivor on the observatory station who just happens to be the villain, considers allowing said villain back onto the station, manages to lose his Chief Engineer and let Soran escape with the Klingons and grows over confident that his "Federation Flagship" will be able to handle a century's old design Bird of Prey. The ONLY THING that Picard manages to succeed in doing is figuring out where Soran's next target is, which was a mistake because in doing so he basically sent his ship, his crew and all their families to their deaths.

    When the trailers showcased this film as a literal "passing on the torch", Picard not only drops it multiple times, he winds up holding the thing upside down in the end.
     
  14. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    :lol: Yeah, I thought the same thing when I first saw it back in '94. It's like Picard doesn't even matter in his own movie.
     
  15. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    I have a feeling that they felt such a need to make Kirk a hero (likely a Shatner ego thing and/or thinking that it would appease TOS fans thing) that Picard took the brunt of it.
     
  16. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    After the way they treated Scotty in "Relics", they damned well better have! Completely ridiculous that the crew would *not* have been in utter awe.
     
  17. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    <--- but then, maybe I'm biased toward temporally displaced original series era characters. :lol:
     
  18. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B


    Not only that----Kirk/Shatner BURNS Picard/Stewarts hand on the fry pan---by "accident"

    Check out when kirk hands the fry pan to Picard------100% certain he burns Picards hand.

    Watch Stewart go, "Ahhhh!!" when he touches it.
    But congrats to him for not blowing the take!
     
  19. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    I had to watch it on youtube. You're right! and what a good thing he managed not to cry again.
     
  20. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    "My hand, it was so gentle, so trusting, it's whole life ahead of it and now...scarred, scarred because of this imbecile's odd fantasy, uh huh, huh, huh.......! Oh sh*t did another star just blow up outside my window?"
     

Share This Page