the torpedo hit in STIII

[Timo]

This would essentially mean that shields indeed are raised, or at least dropped, in a spiraling manner in ST2... A bit funny-looking but possible. (Perhaps the spiraling only happens when one sabotages the shields from outside with a remote command?)

It would also mean that the shields in ST6 are different, as they consist of much wider sectors and seem to have a bit of layering as well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[publiusr]

Two main possibilities there: Scotty's impromptu repairs didn't hold and there was damage from the attempt to sail to help the crew of the Reliant (which we don't see aboard Kirk's ship at any point), or they did hold and the ship entered another adventure that involved damage.

Both are unsatisfactory in more ways than one. Kirk says they have repaired damage and reassigned people, but why did this happen in deep space when the ship was mobile at the end of the previous movie? Why didn't they first sail home, then repair and reassign? Kirk got to Regula on a joyride he wasn't even supposed to be taking - it can't have been all that far away. The capabilities of the ship don't well match either a scenario of staying still until repaired, or swashbuckling with new adversaries.

On the other hand, the fault could be all ST2's. There is damage to the port side of the secondary hull there, as seen in Spock's damage control schematics - but the final scene of setting sail for Ceti Alpha fails to show this damage. OTOH, the starboard side is not seen at the end of the movie, and could have accumulated more damage since last seen (long before the nebula fight); it won't be seen properly again until the ship faces Kruge's BoP, but the "extra" damage is consistently there in earlier ST3 shots as well.

Timo Saloniemi

I think there was a comic released around ST3 that explained the extra damage being caused by spars with Klingon ships who were trying to obtain information about Genesis.

Oh, and you do see the starboard side when the Enterprise is gliding away from the Reliant right before she blows. Still no damage, though.

I think there was a warlike group (not klingons) who did some damage--some other conflict on the way back.

The impulse crystal handles antimatter, so the torp was too much from the wrong angle--but weakened a full detonation from the torp in doing so--rather like a fuse.

Now, me, I consider that not to be a torpedo at all, as we saw in ST:TUC. In ST III the effects shots look to me to be a large spine mount disruptor.

 

[Timo]

The diffuse green ball of fire is seen on several occasions: ST3, ST5 and ST:GEN. It consistently creates rather minimal damage, but results in crucial internal system failures. And in ST3, it is very explicitly referred to as a "torpedo" - or at least Kruge orders "Stand by torpedoes" and as the result of this, Sulu thinks he is "arming torpedoes".

So I very much consider it a torpedo - but one optimized for the sort of warfare a "space submarine" might plausibly wage. It disables weak ships and allows raiding, making the BoP an excellent tool in mercantile warfare. Against capital ships, it's basically worse than nothing, but then again, none of our Klingon skippers thought they would survive the fight with their Starfleet opponent.

The BoP from ST6 is of course a different matter: she is equipped with Federation star cruiser torpedoes, because she pretends to be the Enterprise! However, it would seem Admiral Cartwright chose to give his Klingon counterpart only low-yield torpedoes, sufficient for the very specific needs of the assassination, but nearly useless in the fight against Kirk in the end.

Basically, standard BoPs have Tasers; Chang's BoP packs a Derringer instead.

The impulse crystal handles antimatter

Does it, now? The one on Archer's ship isn't even directly connected to any of the known antimatter bits. And the one on Khan's doesn't really seem to mind being blown to bits by phaser fire.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Therin of Andor]

I know this doesn't answer the question, but one thing that's always bothered me is the amount of damage on the Enterprise's hull isn't consistent with Khan's attacks in ST2. The damage from his volleys is there, but there's way more of it on other areas of the ship that was never hit.

Of course, those of us who'd been following the post-ST II adventures, via DC Comics, knew that there were several repairs and battles between the two movies.

 

[publiusr]

The BoP from ST6 is of course a different matter: she is equipped with Federation star cruiser torpedoes, because she pretends to be the Enterprise!
Timo Saloniemi

And there is an actual torpedo tube on the model. In ST III there looks to be a strange cover over the tube, and coruscating patterns of energy before a discharge--as opposed to the red ball of death.

So was the BoP model changed for ST6? Or was that a cobra head only miniature?

 

[Maurice]

I seem to recall Bill George saying there was a motorized mechanism that rotated there, and that it broke and was removed in subsequent outings, but I'll have to remember to ask him again next time I see him.

 

[publiusr]

Please do. I really liked that effect.

 

[Jon1701]

Two main possibilities there: Scotty's impromptu repairs didn't hold and there was damage from the attempt to sail to help the crew of the Reliant (which we don't see aboard Kirk's ship at any point), or they did hold and the ship entered another adventure that involved damage.

Both are unsatisfactory in more ways than one. Kirk says they have repaired damage and reassigned people, but why did this happen in deep space when the ship was mobile at the end of the previous movie? Why didn't they first sail home, then repair and reassign? Kirk got to Regula on a joyride he wasn't even supposed to be taking - it can't have been all that far away. The capabilities of the ship don't well match either a scenario of staying still until repaired, or swashbuckling with new adversaries.

On the other hand, the fault could be all ST2's. There is damage to the port side of the secondary hull there, as seen in Spock's damage control schematics - but the final scene of setting sail for Ceti Alpha fails to show this damage. OTOH, the starboard side is not seen at the end of the movie, and could have accumulated more damage since last seen (long before the nebula fight); it won't be seen properly again until the ship faces Kruge's BoP, but the "extra" damage is consistently there in earlier ST3 shots as well.

Timo Saloniemi

You know, I always though the damage to the port side disppeared at the end of the movie but thanks to the blu rays you can still see the damage.

There does look like some dull scarring under the saucer on the starboard side but it does look hard to see. You'd be forgiven for thinking its a shadow.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd1134.jpg

 

[RyanKCR]

Two main possibilities there: Scotty's impromptu repairs didn't hold and there was damage from the attempt to sail to help the crew of the Reliant (which we don't see aboard Kirk's ship at any point), or they did hold and the ship entered another adventure that involved damage.

Both are unsatisfactory in more ways than one. Kirk says they have repaired damage and reassigned people, but why did this happen in deep space when the ship was mobile at the end of the previous movie? Why didn't they first sail home, then repair and reassign? Kirk got to Regula on a joyride he wasn't even supposed to be taking - it can't have been all that far away. The capabilities of the ship don't well match either a scenario of staying still until repaired, or swashbuckling with new adversaries.

On the other hand, the fault could be all ST2's. There is damage to the port side of the secondary hull there, as seen in Spock's damage control schematics - but the final scene of setting sail for Ceti Alpha fails to show this damage. OTOH, the starboard side is not seen at the end of the movie, and could have accumulated more damage since last seen (long before the nebula fight); it won't be seen properly again until the ship faces Kruge's BoP, but the "extra" damage is consistently there in earlier ST3 shots as well.

Timo Saloniemi

You know, I always though the damage to the port side disppeared at the end of the movie but thanks to the blu rays you can still see the damage.

There does look like some dull scarring under the saucer on the starboard side but it does look hard to see. You'd be forgiven for thinking its a shadow.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd1134.jpg

It is just a shadow. No marks there in the Search For Spock:
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0643.jpg

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0937.jpg

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd1066.jpg

 

[Jon1701]

Two main possibilities there: Scotty's impromptu repairs didn't hold and there was damage from the attempt to sail to help the crew of the Reliant (which we don't see aboard Kirk's ship at any point), or they did hold and the ship entered another adventure that involved damage.

Both are unsatisfactory in more ways than one. Kirk says they have repaired damage and reassigned people, but why did this happen in deep space when the ship was mobile at the end of the previous movie? Why didn't they first sail home, then repair and reassign? Kirk got to Regula on a joyride he wasn't even supposed to be taking - it can't have been all that far away. The capabilities of the ship don't well match either a scenario of staying still until repaired, or swashbuckling with new adversaries.

On the other hand, the fault could be all ST2's. There is damage to the port side of the secondary hull there, as seen in Spock's damage control schematics - but the final scene of setting sail for Ceti Alpha fails to show this damage. OTOH, the starboard side is not seen at the end of the movie, and could have accumulated more damage since last seen (long before the nebula fight); it won't be seen properly again until the ship faces Kruge's BoP, but the "extra" damage is consistently there in earlier ST3 shots as well.

Timo Saloniemi

You know, I always though the damage to the port side disppeared at the end of the movie but thanks to the blu rays you can still see the damage.

There does look like some dull scarring under the saucer on the starboard side but it does look hard to see. You'd be forgiven for thinking its a shadow.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd1134.jpg

It is just a shadow. No marks there in the Search For Spock:
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0643.jpg

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0937.jpg

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd1066.jpg

Ah, my mind was playing tricks with the scarring. Wrong side.

Mind you, there is nothing under the saucer at the end of TWOK.

I suppose, they either cleaned up the model between II & III and forgot where the markes were (unlikely) or they used artistic license in III to emphasise the damage making it more likely that Starfleet would want to scrap her.