The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 30, 2009.

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Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    707 vote(s)
    62.7%
  2. Above Average

    213 vote(s)
    18.9%
  3. Average

    84 vote(s)
    7.5%
  4. Below Average

    46 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. Poor

    77 vote(s)
    6.8%
  1. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, BoxOfficeMojo ain't a Trek board.
     
  2. Bob The Skutter

    Bob The Skutter Complete Arse Cleft Premium Member

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    Not bad going in the UK. I remember not too long ago the chart toppers would be bringing in less than £1m.
     
  3. Serial thread killer

    Serial thread killer Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I just got back this second from seeing it have to say its in my top 3 of fav trek films.
    Loved the references to st 2 and 4 only thing i not sure about is that Enterpise is the only cannon show.
    I think the actor who played MCcoy really nailed his part.
    And love Scotty's little green friend.
     
  4. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know why exactly, but one of my favorite moments is that shot at the very end, up-angled at Scotty to frame him in that heroic way as he says "Dilithium chambers at MAX-imum, Captain!" - and then he does that take on Neener. :lol:

    Also, Pegg's "you can eat, like, a bean" speech earlier. :lol:
     
  5. Jax

    Jax Admiral Admiral

    Just seen it and dam that is what STAR TREK needs to be in the 21st century and a fantastic start for the movie with that epic battle scene it kick it all off. I loved it the energy, pace, feel and sound of the mvie was just breathtaking, it was STAR TREK and something different all at once. I took 3 non TREK fans with me and they all liked it, one who is a massive Star Wars fan (hardest to please), two others also a big Star Wars fans to a lesser extent and seem to enjoy it the most out of the 3. One friend even said this is how a prequel should be and all said they would see sequels. This TREK movie does not need to create new fans for Trek as a whole but Movie TREK fans and it will succeed in that which will help the future sequels.

    I was not brought up in the 60's, infact I was born in 1987 on May 11th so I don't have TOS in my childhood so my vision on this movie is not swayed like some. I was born the same year STAR TREK was reborned on TV with The Next Generation and that was my TOS and from then on I have seen every episode of every TREK from 1987 onwards and could never really turn back to TOS bar a few episodes though I did enjoy 5 of the 6 TOS cast movies and before this had (6 & 2 as my favourite movies). Today only 24 hours after my 22nd birthday I was lucky enough to be witness the rebirth of STAR TREK once again.

    Thank You J.J Abrams and everone else who worked on the movie.

    A GRADE (Excellent).
     
  6. The Great Meech

    The Great Meech Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Urban crossed the line between acting and imitation--he didn't seem to be playing Bones as much as he seemed to be imagining how DeForest Kelley would have said the same lines. I didn't find this to be a big problem--there are far, far worse things in film than to see someone channel a classic character--but I found it distracting.
     
  7. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought it was a close call, yeah, but I thought he did a good job. He won me over with his delivery of "I don't know, but I like 'im."
     
  8. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Excellent

    (And I'm an old time fan who saw season 3 of TOS first run on NBC and has been watching Star Trek ever since).

    The filme was definitely a good change of pace from previous outing and was a nice breath of 'freash air' (imo). One of the things I really enjoyed about this film was that the plot points weren't just perfectly laid out and explained by lame techno-bable dialog like we probably would have gotten had Berman still been in charge.

    I remained 100% spoiler free. So, when the Romulan ship first appears I was wondering "Okay, is this some Romulan military plot, or what?" It's not until Kirk finds Spock on Delta Vega that I got the backstory; which was presented in a quick, entyertaining way; and sorry, after hearing what happened - I saw no problem with Nero's and his crew's motivations (some folks have stated they made no sense) as the loss of their families and their world; and being thrown 154 years in the past; sent them ALL over the edege; and now, stuck in the past, they want the Vulcan who failed in his promise to suffer as they have; and further, to (in their eyes) help protect and preserve the Romulan Empire that exists where they are now.

    Do I have some quibbles with the film? You bet; but no more than I have with Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (which was ALSO an entertaining Star Trek film).

    What are these quibbles:

    1) 'Delta Vega (at least in te original timeline) was the planet a mere light days from the edge of the galaxy where Kirk hoped to maroon Gary Mitchell. THAT planet give Spock a clear, unobstructed view of Vulcan?! :wtf::vulcan::wtf: (As for Scotty being there; hey it had a Lithium cracking station in the original timeline - so it seems to still have it in this one; no harm no foul).

    2) Montgomery Scott created a 'Transwap Beaming Formula'; that allows people to be beamed across the Galaxy in the 23rd century - and it works; yet we NEVER saw it used in the 24th?!:wtf:

    3) At the end of the film, 'Spock Prime' seems a bit too accepting of this alternate timeline. Is he getting senile; as the Spock I know would be working on a way to fix this and restore/return to his own time (and with Vulcan destroyed in this alternate timeline; I'd think he'd have ample motivation to try SOMETHING).:wtf:

    Still a very enjoyable film; and I do hope they continue with another wholly original story; and DON'T fall into a trap of trying to re-make a TOS episode. If there was one large issue with Berman; it was that he tried to write lackluster Star Trek TV episodes and pass them off as feature films.
     
  9. Gertch

    Gertch Admiral

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    I agree!

    And I just convinced some coworkers to go see it at imax later this week. For some it will be their 3rd time seeing the movie. :techman:
     
  10. tauzo

    tauzo Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    There were a couple lines that peeved me a little, that seemed imitative ... but I felt that he wasn't actually given enough material to really hit stride. I think if they give him a little more room the character will maybe get more natural. I liked the fact that when he was on screen, he was really and truly Bones. I love Quinto as Spock, but I kept on seeing Quinto.
     
  11. Jax

    Jax Admiral Admiral

    Been reading this and I want to add doesn't anyone feel Cannon is nothing more than a vulture eating at the bones of STAR TREK, 40 years is too much history to carry on without changing things this film was perfect at the perfect time. I prefer to see canon as guidlines to help you not as this strict bible as some people seem to believe.

    This plot of creating a seperate timeline is the most respectful way of treating the fans, I will remind you that BOND/Batman was just rebooted and all that came before forgotten (in the case of Batman maybe a good thing).

    Canon is dead...LONG LIVE STAR TREK.
     
  12. tauzo

    tauzo Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    :bolian:
     
  13. Hambone

    Hambone Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As I was watching this movie, I liked it a lot. Afterward, I wasn't so sure. But the more I think about it the more I like it...I believe I'll go and see it again (something I haven't done since 1977, when I was first-in-line to buy a ticket to that other "Star-something" movie).

    Loved the end credits, with the massive, fully-orchestrated arrangement of Sandy Courage's theme. Several choruses, too!
     
  14. Wheo

    Wheo Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I really liked the movie, and definitely plan to buy it when it comes to DVD.

    That being said, there are also many, many things I took issue with. However, I though I was going to absolutely LOATHE it, and for some reason (I'm not entirely sure why), I ended up liking it. *shrugs* That's just me, though.
     
  15. crucifixion

    crucifixion Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    My review of Star Trek 2009 (fan speaking to casual ppl)

    A group of friends and me post on a small message board. About 15 or so of us. The main group, 6 of us, are Sci Fi fans, but unfortuntely its 4-2 as in favor of Star Wars vs Star Trek. And with the last few Star Trek TNG movies that came out, these guys have really really hated and have been uterly turned off by Trek.

    But luckily the trailers entinced them and the mere fact that we are friends, so they had to go see Star Trek. Not only did they love it, they are going to see it again this weekend.

    Here is my review that I posted. I wanted to get your thoughts on how I represented the facts as I'm not too indepth with TOS episodes.

    ==============

    Yeah, I really, really, really liked it.

    It was great in that, its purpose was to reboot the franchise and give it new life and gain new fans, while walking the tightrope of pleasing the old fans. It succeed in that.

    When the movie was first announced a few years ago and then when the some of the story leaked on the net, most of the trek geeks were outraged. One of the things about Star Trek that distinguishes it from Batman, and Transformers and things like that is that it has a straight timeline, and everything happens in one universe. Even with previous time travel in Trek, the heroes saved the day and restored the timeline. In this Trek, they created an alternate timeline and essentially rebooted the franchise so they can start from scratch but at the same time kept the old timeline there for the hardcore fans to know it exists. However, this was a big issue in the Trek community. Even though it was an alternate reality, the hardcore fans were stuck on the death of George Kirk, the destruction of Vulcan, the Enterprise being built in Iowa and not in San Fran as previous history said.

    Essentially it was about 75/25 with the 75% being those hardcore fans that said this movie will suck and it rapes the essence of the original timeline of Trek. Then as we got a couple of months away from the 5/8/09, suddenly some of the fans were switching sides. It started to be closer to 50/50 because many fans realized Trek was dead anyways. I mean, there were 10 previous movies; 6 were from the Kirk era and 4 from the Picard era. The Picard era just stunk- 3 of the movies were no better than a boring weekly episode and only 1, First Contact (with the Borg) was passible as a movie experience. And likewise, with the Kirk era movies, only the Wrath of Khan was a truly great movie, and then after that The Undiscovered Country and The Voyage Home were what you can say were good, but not great movies. The rest were like TV episodes.

    So once the fans started realize we do need new blood and we need new direction, they appreciated the little rumors of this movie they knew. Now that the movie is out, it’s completely flipped and it’s about 90/10 with the 90% of those who loved the movie. Those 10% are those hardcore losers that refuse to accept change.

    As far as myself, I understand where the 10% is coming from. There were a ton of things in this movie that didn’t make sense or were just flat out dumb. Let’s take a look at some of those head scratchers:

    1. OK so Nero’s ship comes back in time 25 years before Spocks does. So after the attack on the Kelvin, Nero and his crew just sit around for 25 years just waiting for Spock. Forget the fact that none of his crew visibly aged since the attack on the Kelvin till Old Spock arrived, but its like, they just sat there for 25 years? Now, to be fair, there was a prequel comic that came out that explained it, and in fact there was footage that was shot that explained what happened. Essentially, after the attack on the Kelvin, Nero’s ship was damaged and then nearby Klingons came by and captured Nero. There was actually a scene in the very first trailer that was released around Xmas that showed Nero being taken away by two Klingon guards. So essentially Nero and crew were captured, spent the time in jail rotting, then escaped, and after they escaped, they captured Spock when he arrived. So yeah, I could buy that they were in jail for like 20 years, then spent 5 years on repairs or waiting for Spock. But this wasn’t addressed in the movie and to the common fan who doesn’t read the comics or know the back story, they would be looking at this huge pot hole.

    2. The huge coincidences in the movie that served as a plot device, but were really just lazy writing. I’m familiar with Orci and Kurtzmans writing as I’m also a Transformers fan and I see what they did with TF, and I know enough about TF: Revenge of the Fallen to see the same issues. Don’t get me wrong, I think their style appeals to the masses, but for fans who like to be intrigued by plot elements, they don’t work. So with Nero, he captures Spock and puts him on an ice planet next to Vulcan so he can see Vulcan destroyed…OK I can work with that. And it also makes sense that the Enterprise was nearby since they were after Nero and Nero just destroyed Vulcan. OK but at all times to throw young Kirk off the ship, they happen to shoot him to a planet that old Spock was on. Even if you could buy that Kirk coincidentally ended up on that planet, at the very least if that planet is the size of earth, it’s a huge stretch to think Kirk and Spock would both be within miles of each other. I would think Spock would be in Canada and Kirk lands in Cambodia. And even if you are willing to believe that coincidence, then of all people they meet at the planet, which looks like there was only 1 human around- of all people they run into Scotty. The same Scotty who happens to be the genius on transporting technology, and oh by the way, what a coincidence that is since Kirk needs to transport while in warp. That whole sequence is lazy writing and just relying on coincidences to make it work.

    3. Speaking of lazy writing, apparently the writer’s only way to convince us that Kirk is in a near death experiences is by having him hang on a ledge by his fingers. OK, so child Kirk drives the car off the cliff, hangs on by fingers. Cadet Kirk space jumps to the mining machine and then is hang by his fingers and is about to fall off before Sulu saves him. Later on, Kirk jumps in Nero’s ship and over jumps and is hanging by his fingers before the Romulan picks him up. I understand having the kid Kirk doing it, and then once more. But three times was too much. There are other ways to make it look like the hero could possibly die than to have him hanging from a ledge. That is just being lazy.

    4. Nero’s logic. OK, so if we have to rely on the comics to understand a part of the movie (like what they did for 25 years) then we also have to accept the comics for what they say is Nero’s motivation. He is mad at Spock because Spock wasn’t fast enough to get the Red Matter to the Super Nova to stop it before it destroyed Romulus. I mean, really? He should be mad at the universe for having the Super Nova. But I guess he’s mad that even though Spock tried to help, his help wasn’t good enough, so now he has to pay. Would’ve been nice if they explained the backstory a little more and that Nero and Spock were friends before and they were working together to save Romulus.

    5. Red Matter. I don’t what it was or where it came from. It was clearly a MacGuffin device. But it looked like big Stapes “easy button” to me. I’m glad they didn’t explain what it was since they would have gotten into techobabble that has turned the casual fan away from Trek, but still. They need Red Matter to prevent a Black Hole. Yeah, that’s intellectually stimulating.

    Those would be the main issues. Really, at the end of the day, you can defend them all and they don’t contribute negatively to the movie. The movie overall was great. If they explained these issues, it might have dragged the movie. I think there was a lot of stuff going on and they did the best they could to make the movie appeal to the masses. Even the Spock-Uhuru relationship; that was the only thing I hated, but then I realized there was no love element for the girls and understanding that this was a movie for the masses, I could deal with it. After all, this is a new timeline and a new Trek. It was just weird at first since the original crew with Shatner were all best friends and to see that felt like brothers and sisters kissing. But it did tie the whole Teacher-Prize Student thing and it made sense now why Uhuru was mad about not being on the Enterprise at first and then gave Spock the evil stare and Spock says yes you’re on the Enterprise. That is a relationship thing and now it makes sense why that happened. When I first saw that, I was like, why the hell is Spock giving up his manhood to this woman. Oh yeah, he’s practically married to her. Now I get it lol.

    So with that out of the way, what was it that I loved about the movie?

    I loved the fact that while the writers appealed the masses, they threw more than enough bones to the dogs to make the hardcore fans happy. Some examples:

    1. Kirk eating the apple- he did the same in a similar scenario in the Wrath of Khan. When he was in a no win situation and everyone around him was sweating, he was acting as cool as the other side of the pillow eating an apple. Just like a scene in Wrath of Khan.

    2. Pike in a wheelchair- Yes, Pike was the first captain of the enterprise, and during the show, he got this disease that limited him to a wheelchair. A different take this time, but he still ended up in a wheelchair. Casual fan wouldn’t think twice, they would think yeah he was a POW and he’s hurt. Hardcore fan appreciates the tie in to the original series

    3. Chekov and his speaking. Small joke, but it was funny in Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home when Chekov was trying to say “Vessel” and kept saying “Wessel”, so it was funny the computer had no idea what he was saying.

    4. McCoy with his “Dammit I’m a Doctor, not a (insert line)”

    5. Scotty with his “I’m giving it all she’s got captain” line

    6. Sulu with the fencing- in the original series, there was a famous scene with him fighting off the bad guys and he was showing his swordsmanship

    7. Random names- ships like the Farugut and people like Nurse Chapel and stuff that were only mentioned in throwaway sentences that regular people could care less about, meant a lot since the writers were showing they did respect the original history

    8. Nero's arrogance. It's a shame we didn't get more screen time for Eric Bana, but I like the "Hi Christoper, I'm Nero" as it was delivered in that, "oh look at these little babies, they are so dumb and I'm so better than them" attitude. Like he was so above them and he had to talk down to them.

    9. Starfleet headquarters being at CSUN. Well this only appeals to a few people, but it was cool that the where my college graduation ceremony was on, was the same steps that Kirk and McCoy were on

    10. There were a ton more that related to previous trek like the Centauri eels that was put in Pikes mouth; Old Spocks line to young Kirk about always have been and always will be, your friend; Young Spock quoting Sherlock holmes, just like Old Spock did in Undiscovered Country (eliminate all possible outcomes and the only one left, no matter how inplausible is it); the "red shirt" that dies like in every trek episode back in the day (the guy in the red space suit that didn't pull his chute till late)...there were a whole mess of things like that.


    There were a ton of things I liked about the story and the action and stuff, but at the end of the day, the best thing I liked is that the casual fan can actually say they liked it. Which means, that the sequel, which they just announced will be out in 2011, will bring back these new fans, as well as the majority of the old fans that liked the movie as well. Obviously, I’m impartial but when I think of Batman Begins, or Superman Returns, or Transformers, or Casino Royale, or all the other famous franchises that were rebooted, I feel that Star Trek had the best performance. Not because it made the same kind of money, or because the story was better, or the action was better, or any of that. But because the stigma that was associated to it, has been removed and any future Star Treks that have Abrams or Orci/Kurtzmans names attached will elicit a positive response from most people now. And to accomplish that from just one movie, for such a bad stigma that it had, that is why this is what it is: Best. Reboot. Ever.

    As mentioned earlier, the main gripe for me was what the hell was Nero doing for 25 years after they destroyed the Kelvin and the time Spocks ship came thru.

    Well it was left on the cutting room floor as Abrams said it would have added more time to the movie and he felt it might confuse the viewers because there would be so much other stuff going on.

    Below is the original trailer. First, this is unrelated, but one of the other cut scenes you will see young Spock on Vulcan sitting next to his mother who is lying on a bed. That scene would just have been how close they are and stuff, and it would help you understand why Spock attacked Kirk when Kirk was like "you don't love your mother". But in the movie, everything played out and made sense, so you didn't need that back story since they already had the scene with Spock and his mom and his mom saying how proud she was.

    However, they cut the scenes relating to Nero, which is why when you watch it, you kinda wonder what the hell happend to Nero. So pay attention to these two scenes:
    1. When McCoy starts talking in the background about Space being a disease (this is right after Scotty is like "I like this ship"), you'll see a quick once second glimpse of Nero being held by two guards and Nero yanking his arms away. This is when he was captured by the Klingons and put in prison. It goes by fast so you may miss it.
    Edit: Here is the screen shot in case you don't want to watch the whole trailer again
    [​IMG]

    2. This one you won't miss- the whole trailer is built up to the end, where you see Nero say "the wait is over". This is in regards to him and his crew finding a way to break out of the prison. So they had come up with a plan and finally are about to escape.
    Edit: Here is the screen shot in case you don't want to watch the whole trailer again
    [​IMG]

    So those two snippets of bigger scenes may have added 5 minutes, but may have also distracted the viewer. Sometimes there is so much going on that its better to just take out the scene and add it in the directors cut.

    They also cut out some other scenes where kid Kirk who lives with his uncle (mom's brother) and his uncle is an alcholic and beats young Kirk. This is why young Kirk steals his car and drives it off a cliff. Thats who young Kirk was talking to on the phone in the car. But since that wasn't in the movie, that whole car scene kinda is like a WTF moment as it seems so random, just seems to be a way to say "yeah young kirk was a badass even when he was a kid" and seems a little forced. That might be added to the directors version.

    Movie was 2 hrs 6 mins. It coudl have been 2.5 hours, but then so much would've happened that it could have lost alot of people. So I can live with it as long as the deleted scenes are added later.
     
  16. gastrof

    gastrof Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: My review of Star Trek 2009 (fan speaking to casual ppl)

    I'm sorry, but I can't get into posts that are this short.

    If you want my attention, you're going to have to edit this and add a few more thoughts.
     
  17. Gryffindorian

    Gryffindorian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My review of Star Trek 2009 (fan speaking to casual ppl)

    For that matter, maybe we should ALL start our own INDIVIDUAL review threads.
     
  18. crucifixion

    crucifixion Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: My review of Star Trek 2009 (fan speaking to casual ppl)

    Yeah but if posted this in the sticky, it gets lost because of the negative posters that just want to whine and complain and throw out funny one liners.

    I thought I could get positive feedback from a positive group, but guess I came to the wrong place.
     
  19. Gryffindorian

    Gryffindorian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My review of Star Trek 2009 (fan speaking to casual ppl)

    Waaaah! In other words, you felt what you had to say was so extremely important that you had to start your OWN review thread when there's already an existing official review thread. Honestly, I couldn't get through your first paragraph.
     
  20. Flamegrape

    Flamegrape Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    My review:

    Star Trek is an excellent film. The cast, crew, effects, and everything else is superb. All of the slight changes are just fine by me. It has been reworked into something that is appealing to more people.

    BUT...

    Why did they have to blow up Vulcan and kill Amanda? Why, why, why? The Vulcans are the iconic race of Star Trek! Kirk and Spock represent the friendship of Earth and Vulcan. The philosophical aspirations of the Vulcan people was very attractive to many fans for generations. I can understand all the other changes. I think those changes worked well. But the destruction of the cornerstone of the Federation is just too much for me. I interpreted it as a symbol of the nerdy interest in the franchise being kicked in the balls.

    With some crafty writing and sci-fi magic, the drastic change I disliked so much could be repaired in the sequel.