Stardates and potential math.

Hello all! Let me preface this and say this is all speculation and in no way am I saying this should be canon. Again all speculation and grain of salt here. I have been working out the math for how to get stardates to a working timeline. Hoping to have some input or some corrections or observations.

• DISCO/SNW: We have to take these as chronological. Stardates appear to reset after this date before TOS/TAS
• TOS/TAS: Take the first stardate from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" of 1312.4 as our starting date. This is to assume all stardates after this are chronological ending with "The Pirates of Orion" (left 2 off I will explain later from TAS).

If we take the episode: "Balance of Terror" (1709.2) and subtract from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (1312.4) stardates equals 396.8. We then divide it by 730.5 equals 0.54 then add 2265 equals 2265.54. 730.5 is 2 years (365.25x2 days to account for leap year). This puts the episode still in or around 2265/2266.

Now if we take the "The Enterprise Incident" (5027.3) subtract 1312.4 then divide by 730.5 = 5.156 then add 2265 = 2270.156. So by this math Enterprise Incident took place in 2270.

If we take "All Our Yesterdays" (5943.7) and subtract 1312.4 = 6.34 then add 2265 = 2271.34.

This does not work well for "The Counter-Clock Incident" and "Bem" as their stardate are too close to TMP and puts them in or about 2272.

• For the "The Motion Picture" this still works fairly well. We have two facts we need to keep in mind as well as there was at least 18 month and 2.5 staryears that were mentioned in the movie. We take TMP stardate 7410.2 and subtract 1312.4 = 6097.8 then divide by 730.5 = 8.347 plus 2265 = 2273.347

If my math is correct if we were to use the TOS-R chronometer in 2266 in (TOS-R: "The Naked Time") that it would take 1 full stardate clock change for 2 actual days. So each day would be .5 stardates.

• When we get to the TWOK this method does not work. But with this formula this works for most things up too STVI. If we take it that the stardates reset in 2274 after TMP. We use the formula stardate divided by 730.5. So TWOK is 8130.3 divided by 730.5 = 11.485 then add 2274 is 2285. This keeps everything between 2285/2286 for everything prior to STVI. By using this model it would put STVI in 2287 and not 2293 that MA has.

• For Star Trek generations Enterprise-B commission stardate of 9715.5 would still place it in 2287 and not 2293.

• Weirdly if we take the USS Stargazer's commissioned stardate of 38197.5 and use the formula. 38197.5 divided by 730.5 = 52.289 plus 2274 = 2326.289 and fits when the Stargazer was commissioned.

When then need to take in account of the TNG and up stardates. 98% of these all fall within the correct time frame of the Chronology as long as they are not a reference date like Seven of Nine's birthdate and the one oddity of Unification's Pardek at a trade conference. If we count back from TNG first season to 2333 this appears to be another stardate reset. If we then take this as working timeframe then we can assume the Enterprise-Cs commission date of 18254.6, this would put its commission date of 2341. Leaving the ship was only 4 years old when it was destroyed in 2344.

 

For Stardates from the Wrath of Khan to the Undiscovered Country, I used a rough correspondence of 178.2 Stardates a year.

That fits well with Star Trek 2, 5, and 6. 3, and 4, less neatly. Generations has no official stardate, but under the Enterprise-B dedication plaque's listed launch date, would be in 2294, technically, by my system.

The Undiscovered Country also has a minimal stardate span from the opening, to supposedly 'two months later' at the conference of Admirals. VOY 'Flashback' treats this as more like two days prior, however.

And the novels by Christopher L. Bennett attempt a clearer stardate correspondence, in the TOS and the TMP to 2279 timeframe. Those are usually much less neat, from what I can tell, though.
Seems like the system got revised multiple times.

And yeah, the 'new' system used in TNG and DS9 and VOY onward, may start anywhere between 2323 and 2333. But somehow, I don't know if it ever had a LITERAL 0.00 point. And may have transitioned even, from one system to another midway (as sites like USSalbion.co.uk, posit)

For the original series, I conclude it spans a good six years, from 'Where No Man has Gone Before' until mission end (TAS arguably included) with the five year mission beginning likely in late 2265 (before Thanksgiving? See 'Charlie X')

 

I've only worked out a Stardate conversion for TOS, where like you, one stardate year is one year on Earth, i.e. 1000 stardates = 365.25 days, so 1 stardate is about 8.766 hours (8 hr 46 min) or one Earth day is ~2.74 stardates.

For WNMHGB, I have it using United Earth Stardates which roll over on Jan. 1 each year. Kirk newly takes over command of the Enterprise from Pike (tombstone has C. 1277.1 to 1313.7 which assume C=date Kirk became and will die as Captain). This is not part of Kirk's five year mission rather he assumes Pike's mission on EU stardate 1277.1 or April 11. WNMHGB ends on EU stardate 1313.8 or April 24 and I put the year at 2265 (+300 years after filming year of 1965, and EU stardate 0000 is 2264 or +300 years since Star Trek was first pitched in 1964). Shortly after this one-off mission, the Enterprise is laid up and refit for Kirk's five year mission.

Note on log entries: Log entries can be realtime, minutes, hours, days, and rarely, weeks/months after actual events. The stardates given in these logs are the time that the entry is made in the log, not necessarily the time of the actual event. Assigning the time of the actual event can be subjective based on the information in the script, so, this gives leeway for the start and end of events plus allows travel time between adventures.

Here are my TOS stardate "rules":

1. 1000 stardates = one Earth year or 365.25 days or 8766 hours; or ~2.74 stardates = 1 day;
2. Scene or actor delivered stardates are actual stardates of the event and cannot be changed;
3. Log entries are always spoken in the present tense narrative;
4. "Log" entries can be minutes, hours, days, weeks, months after actual events as-recorded in the ship's records during the episode or as-edited in the mission report after the event;
5. I try to assume the least amount of lapsed time of log entries (report while still fresh in memory) but you can also assume any length of time prior to the inserted log stardates, even several months on rare occasion.
6. It is better to sort the episodes by finish stardates, but this is only a minor issue versus start stardates;
7. Episode durations and time between episodes must be estimated based on episode dialog or action; as a rule of thumb, one to two weeks (20-40 stardates) should be allowed between episodes, but only a day or two is sufficient to travel several star systems if they are in a hurry like answering a distress call (speed of plot can be very fast);
8. Several unknown stardate episodes must be estimated; as a rule of thumb, try to stick to production order if possible, i.e. put episode 54 as close to 53 or 55 as possible;
9. I put in additional time to complete the unaired parts of each mission (x days scanning before episode, deliver x to y after episode) or for ship repairs, interior ship updates (i.e. set changes) and starbase visits; serious ship repairs can take one or two weeks; major upgrades maybe longer.
10. If there is no in-universe explanation for something that doesn't fit, assume it is a script error/typo and move along. (This possibly occurs in at least four episodes: TGOT; TDY; ATCSL; SB which I rule all have stardate script errors.)
11. Roddenberry's explanation to annoying fans at a convention that stardates takes in variances for galactic location, etc. is Bullsh-t.
12. Have fun is the most important rule.

I have TOS using the new Federation Stardates which reset on May 11, 2265 backtracked from Charlie X which rolls over on May 11 each Earth year (The Federation Headquarters is on Earth hence still using Earth years). May 11 may be an important date to the Federation like maybe its anniversary of its founding, and/or the date when UE Starfleet Command takes over all the Federation's space command, details still in committee hence the delay until midseason year one . I have Kirk's five year mission starting on ~1000 which equates to 5/11/2266. The first 4 months of his mission are uneventful with most of it traveling from Earth to the far fringe of the Federation. First episode is Mudd's Women (Mudd’s hearing on 1329.2 or 9/10/2266)(just in time for the new fall TV season ). The last episode is All Our Yesterdays (starts on 5943.7 or 4/20/2271, and 4 years 11 months after the start of the five year mission.) <One can propose that Day of the Dove can be the last episode based on Kang's 3 years remark. The Organian Peace Treaty in episode EOM was stardate ~3201, adding 3 full years puts it at Stardate ~6200 (+ a little if the Treaty wasn’t drafted and signed until later). For this episode to occur close to its production order, Kang’s “3 years” could be up to 6 months shorter pushing its earliest most stardate to ~5700. Stardate 5760 fits with its production order making it ~2 years 7 months since EOM which is where I put it.>

I mostly ignore the TAS and TMP stardates; they are their own thing. Regardless of the TAS stardates, visually, the TAS Enterprise is modified from TOS (second turbolift on bridge, engineering and shuttlebay changes, etc.) plus personnel changes (M'Ress and Arex and no Chekov); in-universe, this must occur after TOS. Overall, 6150 stardates occur (if you believe their stardates mean anything) or over 6 years. Maybe this suggests that TAS is a completely new five year mission plus a little. Put The Pirates of Orion, The Counter-Clock Incident and Bem as ceremonial/diplomatic missions after a TAS five year mission seems okay; roll out the old girl and hero crew over the next year+ for special occasions.

ST1:TMP = stardate 7410.2? one theory, after TAS, Kirk is promoted 1 year prior to the start of the TMP 1.5 year refit (to meet Kirk's 2.5 year without logging a star hour). This puts TMP ~13.5+ years (1st 5YM + 2nd 5YM + ~1 yr + 2.5 yrs) after the TOS start date (5/11/2266) or ~ late 2279 which just happens to be ~300 years after its release date in Dec 1979 and matches the actors ages. Sounds okay.

ST2:TWOK = stardate (1)8130.3 (June 27, 2283) on Kirk's birthday; Romulan Ale is also bottled 2283 (or later, but not earlier). There's ~5,000 stardates from Space Seed (July 2, 2268), add a ten year or 10,000 stardate roll over makes 15,000 stardates or 15 years, and both Kirk and Khan say it was 15 years ago. Sounds okay. <Just a few months after Space Seed, Kirk is 34 so he was born June 27, 2234. >

ST3:TSFS = stardate (1)8210.3 (July 27, 2283). 68 stardates or 25 days after TWOK. Sounds okay.

ST4:TVH = stardate (1)8390.0 (Oct 1, 2283). 180 stardates or about 67 days after TSFS. Kirk says they are in the 3rd month of exile, so between 60 and 90 days. Sounds okay.

ST5:TFF = stardate (1)8454.1 (Oct 24, 2283). 64 stardates or about 23 days after TVH. They must have got the new ship very quickly and Scott is still working out the bugs which suggests it was indeed a rush job. Sounds okay.

ST6:TUC = stardate (2)9521.6 (Nov 17, 2294). Can't be only 1070 stardates or a little over one year after TFF, since Sulu says he is finishing up a 3 year mission. A three year gap between TFF and TUC is at least ~3000 stardates. So, there may be another rollover of +10,000 stardates or 11,070 stardates or ~11 years passed after TFF. A long time gap but it brings us up to the real passage of time for Kirk's upcoming retirement as implied at the end of the TUC. Sounds okay.

ST7:GEN = stardate unknown (I recommend ~2295) for the Enterprise-B Launch. At the end of TUC, it seems Kirk will retire a short time (months?) after TUC, and his length of retirement in GEN seems recent based on dialog. This puts Kirk’s total time in the captain’s chair at almost 30 years which lines up with the 30 year remark. Sounds okay.

Moving TWOK to +2 years to 2285 as some put it, means that the whole, above timeline needs to shift +2 years. I prefer 2283 since the film was released in 1982 which is closer to the +300 year convention. This is a lot of assumptions and personal choices, so, YMMV .

 

Of course, comments in Generations and 'Relics', and 'The Neutral Zone' - collectively hard lock many Kirk era dates. Be they about his retired period with Antonia, the Nexus, and the 75 and 78 year spans.

So Kirk cannot really enter the Nexus much past June 2293, and be there 78.2 years, say (to August 2371 - if it's a real 1000 units a year match up)

 

My timeline encompasses the TOS and the TOS movies. I didn't have the mental energy to move on to TNG, etc. If they say the second part of GEN is the year 2371, then we need to push my above timeline -2 years and assume the 2283 date on the bottle of Romulan Ale is something like an expiration date and not a bottling date.

In any event, Space Seed and TWOK continue to confuse the timeline with references of ~200 years since 1996. Add in 3 centuries (~300 years) since Lincoln died (1865) from The Savage Curtain, you'ed think TOS takes place around 2200. Warp drive would be discovered around the year 2000.

 

LOL. TOS does take place around 2200 and then the Romulans messed it up

 

Other than Kirk's birthday being March 22nd, I am utterly surprised by how well this all works out. Great job!

 

Those darn time traveling Romulans.

I plan to do a +230 year timeline to include these 200 year references. The space warp was discovered by Cochrane around 2000, but the routine use of the warp drive started in 2018 when sleeper ships became unnecessary. I assume a few experimental prototypes of the warp drive were made prior to 2018.

I think I have an in-universe explanation for the 2283 date on the bottle: we never see the date on the bottle, only we see/hear Kirk struggle to read the date do to his poor vision and maybe small print on the bottle. He does not have the reading glasses, yet. Kirk just misread the date*! Case solved.

<*edit. 2209 works well.>

 

This seems to match up with TNG and they way they figured out out character's birthdays for the Monopoly set, which interestingly seem to match the actors' if I remember it right.

That is a fun idea that adds a little more comedy to the moment.

I'm surprised that by moving TOS a bit later than shown in the chronology it seems to fit with ST:II more smoothly. I have typically tired to move the movies earlier than they are said to occur in the chronology to make it line up. Either way, the more time that 1701A is in service the more sense it makes that it has been retired.

I could put it that the Enterprise-B portion of Star Trek Generations is 30 years after Star Trek 6 so that the Enterprise-A was in service longer, but that would not fit with the "78-years Later" onscreen in the movie.