So is the pressure on Superman?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Galactus, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2001
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Then why do dramas get so much respect? 'Cause I've seen a hell of a lot of shitty dramas.
     
  2. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Location:
    sidious618
    If you're only talking movies then J. Michael Stracznyski (Demon Night, Othersyde and Tribulations) and Neil Gaiman. If you're including TV then Paul Cornell (countless Doctor Who books which were usually fantastic), George R. R. Martin, Neil Gaiman again and countless others.
     
  3. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    I was speaking more in reference to making the jump to movies, not television, but thanks. (How in the hell did I forget Straczynski? I'm really looking forward to Changeling.)
     
  4. Galactus

    Galactus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2002
    Location:
    The High Father
    I can only think the reason comic writers or novelist haven't made the jump to writing screenplays is because they are not allowed, not because they don't have the ability. To be honest writing screenplays is a lot easier than writing a book. In this age of specialization you are generally allowed to only do one thing until you make it big then you are allowed to do whatever you want.

    Doesn't Steve Martin write both books and screenplays as well as anything else he wants?

    Why would be the pressure be on Spiderman 4? Spiderman 3 made almost 900 million worldwide. Does TDK have another 300 million in it?
     
  5. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Wherever you go, there you are.
    TDK may well have another $300 million in it. It's only in the opening phase of its international release, with a lot of territories where it hasn't been released at all yet.

    Spider-Man 4 will have a lot of pressure on it, not so much because of anything to do with TDK, but because the box office for a fourth Spidey outing may well drop quite substantially from the previous grosses that the series has delivered.
     
  6. I dont think its the same thing because there's such a small sample size of superhero movies. there are SO many dramas that have been going since, basically, film as a medium. i can literally count on one hand the superhero movies that I think approach truly great films. on one hand, in the entire history of film. You'll may disagree, but i think there's a TON of great dramas out there, even if there are more shitty ones.
     
  7. Wasn't this co-written by Richard Donner himself?
    I'm intrigued by it, i've heard of it before but knew it had obscene delays. I might swing by Borders and take a look-see.
    And Superman getting an essentially adopted son (i know a few spoilers just from general internet buzz, but i wont say anything about them) just makes so much more sense if you must have Superman as a father.
     
  8. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2001
    Location:
    Sac, Ca
    I don't think the pressure is any greater than it was. Clearly the next Superman movie has to perform better than the last one, and be much more of the "crowd pleaser" that the studios are looking for, but it's not going to be considered a failure if it doesn't do TDK-type numbers.

    If anyone is up to the challenge though, I think it's Singer. No matter what your opinion of SR, he's one of the few superhero directors out there besides Nolan who could be considered a real artist. While other directors are simply making flashy, live-action cartoons, Nolan and Singer are actually trying to bring something interesting and complex to the table.
     
  9. Captain Craig

    Captain Craig Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Location:
    Nashville,TN
    To cash in on the superhero craze?
    You state it as if superhero movies just became big this year or last.

    We will get more comic/superhero movies and this summers success only ensures we get more but the recent successful glut is 10years old now. The 90's had some but they were lacking in success.

    The cashing in started about 2002/2003, every success since then has only sustained the trend.
     
  10. Superman

    Superman Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Location:
    The wastelands of the Obamanation
    Yes, Donner co-wrote it. He has stated that Last Son was in fact his idea for the Superman 3 he would have made had circumstances allowed.

    I highly recommend it. The series was plagued by delays, but you'll have no problem enjoying it in collected form.

    \S/
     
  11. Zachary Smith

    Zachary Smith Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2001
    Location:
    Lost somewhere in space
    If and when they make a new Superman movie, I'd like to think it will be ABOUT Superman instead of being a lovely posthumous Valentine to Christopher Reeve.
     
  12. Bad Bishop

    Bad Bishop Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Land of Fruits and Nuts
    TDK is a cash machine that has more than made up for the disappointing box office of Superman Returns. I think this might help move the next Superman along.
     
  13. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    I believe in Metropolis

    I believe in Bryan Singer

    I believe in Superman

    ;)
     
  14. Kegek

    Kegek Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Location:
    Somewhere You're Not
    ^
    I believe in Nick Naylor.

    Anyway, if TDK effects the Superman sequel at all I'd gather it be postively - one can do a serious, brooding take on a big-name superhero and make oodles. Maybe if the next film had things happen to the character - upsets of the status quo, prices paid by the hero, and other things that I felt Returns lacked and was my main problem with a pretty good film.
     
  15. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    I think they need to let Superman rest for a while and push their other characters like Flash, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman. Marvel is putting out way more characters. DC has a rich background. Yes, Supes and Bats are the foundation characters, but DC/Warner Brothers is doing a disservice to themselves and the fans by not really delving into the deep well they have.

    I think a follow up the disappointing SR won't be all that exciting, and a reboot so soon after SR might go the way of Incredible Hulk in terms of popularity.

    Though I would prefer getting rid of Singer. He had his chance and he blew it. I don't want to see a retread of TWOK which is what I heard he plans for the Man of Steel sequel. At least look to the vast amount of Superman product out there for source material. Why go back to TWOK? It worked for X-Men 2, but I would like someone willing to be a little more creative yet stay true to Superman's character and the mythos. A little tweaking is fine, but I didn't care for Singer's changes, or his casting choices. Though Spacey was an inspired choice for Luthor, Singer didn't really do anything with him. And Routh was told to mimic Christopher Reeve IMO, which was only a reminder of how great Reeve had been in the role while doing nothing to allow Routh the opportunity to put his own stamp on the role.
     
  16. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 1999
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I want to see a Superman movie as a huge action piece. I'd like to see a trilogy about Darkseid invading Earth. I'd also like to see them cast someone much bigger and muscular; I prefer my Superman to look like a freak on steroids ;)
     
  17. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Location:
    Gotham
    I would love to see Superman: Man of Steel or whatever you want to call it directed by Bryan Singer with a story by Singer and Mark Millar and a screenplay written by Millar! I think a collaboration between the two of them would result in a fucking fantastic action movie!!! Darkseid and Brianiac need to be involved somehow as well. I don't know if Batman's success has put pressure on Superman...I think the lack of critical success on Superman Returns puts pressure on Superman to be honest.
     
  18. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Wherever you go, there you are.
    Variety's Anne Thompson spoke to Thomas Tull, the head of Legendary Pictures (co-financier with WB of Batman Begins, Superman Returns, 300, The Dark Knight, Watchmen, and others) a couple of weeks ago. I just saw it flagged up on Comics2Film. Here's the relevant bit in relation to another Superman film:

    So it sounds like they're envisaging a sequel, but since they're still only at the stage of taking pitches from screenwriters they're not far along in development (which makes a summer 2010 release look dubious given the size and complexity of a Superman film). The more time slips by the more likely it becomes that WB and Legendary decide to start from scratch with Superman rather than make a sequel to SR.
     
  19. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2001
    Location:
    Sac, Ca
    Agreed. Singer is great with the visual aspect, but he really needs some stronger writers to help come up with a good story.
     
  20. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    I think you're misinterpreting the statements some folks are making re: "The Dark Knight" or "Batman Begins" regarding how Superman would be done.

    What these films demonstrated isn't that "dark and brooding" is the way to go. What they demonstrated is that staying as true as possible to the source-material, instead of trying to "reinvent" or "put my own spin on it" or whatever, is the way to go.

    "Superman Returns" at once tried to honor, not Superman (the comic character) but Superman (the Reeves character) and yet to "update" it in ways that they'd NEVER do with the comic character. They "honored" stuff that's not central to the guy, and ripped out core elements of him and those around him.

    As "cool" as the action sequences in S-R may have looked, the "Superman is a stalker ex-boyfriend" bit was utterly horrifying to me and ruined everything. The fact that the actor, or at least the way the part was written and the character was outfitted and dressed, was almost like a Goth/Emo version of Superman didn't help.

    Go do a search for "World's Finest trailer." It's a fan-made thing, but it's got the best Batman and Superman casting I've ever seen (and I love Bale in the Nolan films, by the way... I just think that the guy in this is better!) The guy who did Clarke Kent in this little trailer IS Superman as I've always seen him in my mind's eye. And his Clark and Superman are just dissimilar enough that I can imagine people not figuring it out.

    What needs to be done in the next Superman film is to treat it as a SERIOUS (no "camp") treatment. Treat this as the real world... but just put this fantastic character into it. The Salkind Superman did that to an extent... but it also had a heavy dose of campiness, with "Superman Returns" kept but layered on even more heavily.

    Note: "No Camp" does NOT mean "dark and depressing." Humor doesn't have to involve self-mockery. Superman should be a bright, positive hopeful character... exactly the opposite of what Batman should be.