Klingon feudalism and whether the Klingons have unified policy?

[Citiprime]

Here's a question I've had since the idea of Klingon "Houses" became a thing... I'm guessing Klingon feudalism works similar to its historical framework in human history as well as to how it does in other genre fictional universes (e.g., Game of Thrones, Dune, etc.).

But this brings up some questions ....

• Are the Klingon Defense Forces a hodgepodge of each Klingon House's forces that are called up by the High Council for certain actions, but otherwise are under the direct control of a House Lord? And is their loyalty to the Lord of the House or the Empire as a whole?
• Unless otherwise ordered not to, does each Klingon House pursue its own agenda? For example, Kruge seeking out the Genesis Device data and committing acts of war?
• Are all of those Birds of Preys and Battle Cruisers not the property of the Klingon state per se, but owned by individual Klingon Houses who each have their own separate production, research, and development going on based on the resources they control from the planets under their control? Could there be a Klingon House that's responsible for starship production (or has the contract for starship production from the Chancellor) and another House that specializes in food production or dilithium mining?
• Similar to how those Harkonnens and Atredies have a blood feud in Dune, does the High Council allow for internecine open warfare battles for control of Klingon resources between Klingon Houses?
• When Worf becomes part of the House of Martok, does that mean the House of Mog is incoprated into Martok's and the House of Mog is a vassal of Martok's (i.e., think of all of the smaller Houses associated with and loyal to House Stark in Game of Thrones).

One thing I find interesting is that both Star Trek and Game of Thrones take the same view of feudalism, in that it's fundamentally unstable and leads to all sorts of depravities. K'mpec's death leads to a waste of countless deaths just as the succession crises in Game of Thrones causes all sorts of misfortune.

 

[Michael]

Here's a question I've had since the idea of Klingon "Houses" became a thing... I'm guessing Klingon feudalism works similar to its historical framework in human history as well as to how it does in other genre fictional universes (e.g., Game of Thrones, Dune, etc.).

But this brings up some questions ....

• Are the Klingon Defense Forces a hodgepodge of each Klingon House's forces that are called up by the High Council for certain actions, but otherwise are under the direct control of a House Lord? And is their loyalty to the Lord of the House or the Empire as a whole?
• Unless otherwise ordered not to, does each Klingon House pursue its own agenda? For example, Kruge seeking out the Genesis Device data and committing acts of war?
• Are all of those Birds of Preys and Battle Cruisers not the property of the Klingon state per se, but owned by individual Klingon Houses who each have their own separate production, research, and development going on based on the resources they control from the planets under their control? Could there be a Klingon House that's responsible for starship production (or has the contract for starship production from the Chancellor) and another House that specializes in food production or dilithium mining?
• Similar to how those Harkonnens and Atredies have a blood feud in Dune, does the High Council allow for internecine open warfare battles for control of Klingon resources between Klingon Houses?
• When Worf becomes part of the House of Martok, does that mean the House of Mog is incoprated into Martok's and the House of Mog is a vassal of Martok's (i.e., think of all of the smaller Houses associated with and loyal to House Stark in Game of Thrones).

One thing I find interesting is that both Star Trek and Game of Thrones take the same view of feudalism, in that it's fundamentally unstable and leads to all sorts of depravities. K'mpec's death leads to a waste of countless deaths just as the succession crises in Game of Thrones causes all sorts of misfortune.

I feel like this post alone has more thought put into the whole idea of Klingon houses and its implications than all Klingon episodes in all of Trek combined.

 

[Paul Weaver]

I get the feeling that the defence forces are owned/loyal to houses. The actual economic ownership doesn’t sound very honourable, I suggest you threaten a Ferengi or sort it out on the floor of the great hall. That’s how we ended up with a civil war in Redemption anyway

Kruge I feel was acting without knowlege of the council, certainly without the acknowledged knowlege. He only had a tiny bird of prey and a dozen men.

worth remembering that the Klingon empire in the 2250s (discovery) and the 2290s (films), and certainly the 2360s, could be very different.


There were clearly blood feuds between different houses, with a lot of backstabbing and assassinations going on. The only one who believed anything about honour that we saw was Worf and Martok.

The house of Mogg had been dissolved by the time Worf joined Martok, it had no properties, no lands, no honour. I get the impression it was just worf “marrying in” to the house, rather than a vassalage.

 

[Finn]

Um. What's House of Mog?

 

[Paul Weaver]

Um. What's House of Mog?

Spot was in it

 

[Finn]

 

[Nerys Myk]

Mog/Moggie. British slang for cat.

Worf's original House was the House of Mogh.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Are all of those Birds of Preys and Battle Cruisers not the property of the Klingon state per se, but owned by individual Klingon Houses

So I've rewatched House of Quark and Parmach in the places. It's clear there that Grilka's house owned vast amounts of materiel, and the war with the Federation led to great costs

"The recent hostilities between the Federation and the Empire have been very costly to my family. We have suffered great losses in ships, lands, warriors. "

 

[FredH]

So I've rewatched House of Quark and Parmach in the places. It's clear there that Grilka's house owned vast amounts of materiel, and the war with the Federation led to great costs

"The recent hostilities between the Federation and the Empire have been very costly to my family. We have suffered great losses in ships, lands, warriors. "

Wait — I get how they’ve lost ships and warriors, but why lands? It’s not like the Federation’s ground armies are invading Klingon worlds… right?

 

[Paul Weaver]

Economically “land” refers to things like mineral deposits, forests etc.

Grills could have owned rights to extract dilithium, which the war had appropriated.

 

[Citiprime]

Wait — I get how they’ve lost ships and warriors, but why lands? It’s not like the Federation’s ground armies are invading Klingon worlds… right?

Wars are expensive. And there's been nothing to indicate the Klingons have a post-scarcity economy like Earth. My guess is it could mean two things.

• At least some Klingon houses have to take out loans for expenditures, and just like here in the real world, they would have to put up capital as collateral. So their "lands" could be in hoc to the Klingon equivalent of the "Iron Bank," or one of the other more wealthier houses who would be willing to loan out resources on the condition of being repaid, or forfeiture of property.
• Klingon houses don't believe in cooperation during wars against outsiders. So if any territory is momentarily lost during a military operation, but later liberated by the forces of another house, the Klingon house that captures it doesn't acknowledge the claim of the previous house to the territory, but asserts their rights to it as a conquered land under their new control.

Either of those situations seem like a recipe for a disaster and would just kill morale while fighting a war. You would end up with your own forces resentful of each other, backbiting one another, and fighting each other while you're trying to unite them in common cause against your enemies.

 

[fireproof78]

Wait — I get how they’ve lost ships and warriors, but why lands? It’s not like the Federation’s ground armies are invading Klingon worlds… right?

Praxis exploded due to over mining because Kronos is resource poor, demanding expansion.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Wait — I get how they’ve lost ships and warriors, but why lands? It’s not like the Federation’s ground armies are invading Klingon worlds… right?

Maybe some other Houses moved in on their lands? I get the impression internecine warfare is a thing in the Empire.