Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movie?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lance, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Going all the way back to the original release in 1994, I've always loved this first section of the movie, and have often felt that the rest of the movie (the TNG section) just doesn't live up to it. Captain Harriman is a complete weenie, but otherwise I've always liked this little vignette with the launch of the Enterprise-B. There are some great lines despite the script obviously having to be retailored after Nimoy and Kelley bowed out, including one or two genuinely touching character moments with the TOS crew ("I was never that young..." "No... you were younger"). Shatner's death scene is also infinitely more in keeping with how I'd prefer to see Captain Kirk breathing his last, as opposed to the almost pointless way he dies in the Veridian III scenes. Oh sure, in the latter case he's helping to save a pre-warp civilisation from Soran's probe obliterating them, but I just don't care much for the way he's almost arbitrarily wiped out -- and this was the remounted version after the original 'shoot him in the back' version was deemed unsatisfactory!

    Am I alone in thinking this? :confused:
     
  2. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    The opening scene feels like a gentle continuation of The Undiscovered Country.

    I always seem to lose interest rapidly after the Enterprise B scene ends.
     
  3. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    I especially like the way it feels... completely self contained. You can almost stick that movie on and then stop watching it after Kirk falls out of the big hole in the side of the 'B'.
     
  4. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    It's a fun cosy nostagia trip but nothing special.

    Sadly, it probably is the best part of Generations. Which shall hopefully forever remain the shittiest Star Trek movie.
     
  5. Ketrick

    Ketrick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    I agree wholeheartedly. Mind you, there were a few good moments later in the film, but this was arguably the best scene. I especially agree with what you say about Kirk's "death" at the end of the scene being better than the one where he actually died.

    Kirk should die either saving the ship or going out kamikaze style similar to how his father sacrificed himself on the Kelvin or how Kirk in The Return "died" turning off the Borg machine planet after punching out Picard. Any other death doesn't fit him as a character.

    Actually, I'd love it if in either STID or the next film, Orci and Kurtzman found a way to work in a few lines that retcon a version of the events in The Return and the other two novels in the Odyssey trilogy into canon just so Kirk didn't die such a terrible death. That's, however, likely to be wishful thinking on my part.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  6. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    Many of the movies opening scenes can almost stand alone as mini-movies. TMP right up to the "it heading for Earth." TWOK to where Kirk says "home." ST Eleven to where we see the shuttles escaping and the Narada sheading debris.

    ST Eleven would have been so much better if we had only known to walk out of the theater at that point.

    :)
     
  7. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    I find Generations decent enough until Picard gets sucked into the Nexus, then the wheels fall off.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  8. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    1) I quite enjoyed Generations. Yes, I'm that one guy.

    2) I agree with the OP.

    3) I would have changed the ending by either:

    A) Have Kirk reappear on the Ent-B, "Ta-daaaa!!"

    B) Don't destroy the ENT-D, Kill Picard. Kirk takes command, "Yee-hawwww!!"
     
  9. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    I agree that the first part is the best. I might watch that and jump to Kirk chopping wood.
     
  10. Cinema Geekly

    Cinema Geekly Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    Personally I think there is an interesting story buried in the John Harriman character.

    A capable Starfleet Officer in his own right but he struggles mightily trying to be the guy who follows CAPTAIN KIRK as skipper of the Big E.

    I think there could be a great character story hidden in there.
     
  11. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    I enjoy Generations, especially the beginning with Kirk, Scotty, and Chekov. I have read criticisms of the movie all over the place, and they never make sense to me. The most common one is "story flaws" or "plot holes," which are no bigger here than in any other Trek movies. I think a lot of it is disappointment with Kirk's death and nothing more.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  12. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    That's the single good thing I took away from opening night GENERATIONS, and I think it remains the best TREK-related idea I've had. You have a real LORD JIM here, somebody who is going to be haunted forever by this moment where he just didn't rise to the occasion and will always be thought of as The Guy Who Got Kirk Killed.

    Got a huge file on what could have been a good limited series that goes into the political paranoia feel in Fed and SF during SFS and TUC, and how that fuels throwing Harriman to the wolves, dispersing the crew and even burning the name off the E-B's hull, and what it takes to get the Enterprise back in good graces and how Harriman atones and even almost prospers (at least internally) from the effort. Have never read the subsequent Peter David novel because I don't want to see if he went the same route or not.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    There's a great short story by Peter David in the book Enterprise Logs which goes a long way in rehabilitating the character. :techman:
     
  14. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    Peter David had a bit of a mission regarding fleshing out the Ent-B crew. His The Captain's Daughter is a recommended read IMO for the extra layers it gives to practically all of them.
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    Exactly. Harriman is not incompetent, he's not a 'weenie'. He's just the new guy. Everyone has to start somewhere. Besides, Harriman would never have been given command of an Enterprise in the first place if he had been a bad captain...

    The problem is simply that he isn't Kirk. Therefore, anyone is going to be prejudiced against Harriman for that very reason - the assumption that only Kirk can be a good captain, that anyone else could never measure up. Which is sad and completely untrue, really.

    For Harriman's part, at least he has the guts to swallow his pride and ask Kirk for help when the time comes.
     
  16. Metryq

    Metryq Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    That scene is about all I remember, and vaguely at that. I saw GENERATIONS on Laserdisc. Watched the first side, then didn't bother to rewind the disc before returning it to the rental place.
     
  17. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    From a standpoint of pure visual spectacle, I like the crash of the Ent-D.

    As with James Bond, even the least of the STAR TREK movies has its moments. Granted, I can't think of the moment in NEMESIS off the top of my head.
     
  18. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    I thought the VFX shot zooming in on the capitol of Romulus at the beginning was great (Well, that was the only reason I bought this DVD).

    I didn't like the opening of GENERATIONS (what's with these stupid add-on bumpers on the Enterprise-C?), way to Kirk-centric you'd almost wonder if Bill Shatner was the director.

    The entire (!) TOS crew gave us a beautiful, perfect good-bye at the end of Star Trek VI. What did Paramount do? Ruined and spoiled it with ST VII.

    I think Mr. Plinkett made some comments worth listening to (I especially liked his observation of the last scene in Picard's ready room...unbelievable!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h06WKYFYdlo (Beware, it could really spoil your appetite for the film). :scream:

    Bob
     
  19. CaptainMurdock

    CaptainMurdock Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    The Opening is the best part but even when I watch it nothing about it feels right. Shatner just comes off as Shatner and Doohan and Koenig do the best with what they are given. As with Star Trek V I just take this one off the shelf and bury it with the unwatchables.
     
  20. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi

    Although it certainly wouldn't rank in my top five Trek movies, I actually like Generations a lot. The opening feels like an extended "cherry on the cake" appendix to TUC, love the saucer crash, Lursa and B'Etor are a bonus, enjoy the "emoting" Picard/Troi scene, Soran was pretty good, really like the whole Nexus sequence from Christmas to ravine jumping.

    The cinematography and lighting is first rate, and McCarthy's underrated score is often sublime and quite beautiful in places. Other than Kirk's lacklustre demise, and the often bemoaned plot holes, there's a lot to enjoy in the film from my perspective.