How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by ZapBrannigan, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Location:
    None Given
  2. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Location:
    USS Berlin
    Yes, that would be impressive, but please - not an Enterprise with such noticable gridlines, especially on the engineering hull :rolleyes:

    Bob
     
  3. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Sing it! :techman:
     
  4. Lenny Nurdbol

    Lenny Nurdbol Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Location:
    New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
    I know that I'm in the minority here, so don't clobber me.

    IMHO, they should have LEFT TOS ALONE. What you see is what you get. You don't go back and retouch works of art. You don't colorize episodes of The Twilight Zone. You just leave them as the product of their times.

    When I saw my first "remastered" TOS episode, I puked. Because what I saw, from my warped little perspective, was a lot of hard work by model makers and cameramen thrown away, literally Edited Out, and replaced by...let's be honest, souped up Cartoons. I knew that old model and it still looks like a Physical model rather than some computer-generated contraption. I think "remastered" does a great disservice to the people who brought the original Enterprise to life.

    If that wasn't enough, they started to change other things. Spock's koon-ut-kali-fi stomping grounds in "Amok Time" were changed. The beam-down landscape of the Tantalus V penal colony in "Dagger of the Mind" changed. Flint's home in "Requiem For Methuselah" changed. The SS Aurora in "The Way to Eden" changed. Changed for no good stinking reason other than the fact that they Could change things.

    Yeah, and again: IMHO!
    I'm the minority guy all alone in his own opinion.
     
  5. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Location:
    Bulawayo Military Krral
    Good. Please don't forget that.
     
  6. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Location:
    Bulawayo Military Krral
    Agreed. I would have also completely CGI'd TNG to the point that the ships which were reuses of older models would be completely new ships (examples: the ships in 'Heart Of Glory', the ships in 'The Outrageous Okana', and every other episode that had an old model ship in it reused from the movies).
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  7. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    You're not alone.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    I don't know about you, but my TOS Blu-rays have both versions of the episodes...

    An interesting experiment is how I look at the new effects. Some things worked, others not so much.
     
  9. Lenny Nurdbol

    Lenny Nurdbol Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Location:
    New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
    You don't know about me because I don't have a Blu-ray player nor a high-definition viewscreen...

    And you couldn't pay me to buy remastered-anything.

    I've been reading how the different episodes of TNG have been "remastered" with a little high-res here, and a "reconstructed" planet there (watch it in slow motion else you might miss it!). Amazing how fans pay for the same stuff over and over again. Maybe they've got more time and money to waste than I have?

    I'm sure they'll have a 3-D release of them, sooner or later (call it Phase 2.0) all and fans'll run out and gobble them up, too. Better yet, put a stupid trading card in each pack with a mystery pink dot or something on one in a million to attribute some "collectors value" to it. They're well-trained to consume and swallow these gimmicks...

    You'd think people would have learned from Lucas...
    But they don't. Neither do they grow up. Thus the spectacular success of J.J. Abrams film.

    Yeah, I am getting too old for this...
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    When I watch TNG-R to me it looks like a cleaned up print of the show as opposed to the faded and muddy look of the original version. I know there are small fixes in it, but I find they don't scream out to me. To me the changes seem small and unobtrusive. This is in real contrast to TOS-R which leaves me exclaiming WTF!!! over and over and over again.
     
  11. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Sure as shit, he is not alone in his opinion. And he ain't wrong either.
     
  12. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    I used to be interested in re-mastering the effects, and it's still kind of interesting, but it would never be the definitive way for me to view star trek. It might be something I would check out, but I would always go back to the original effects.

    Fortunately the blu rays contain the Original footage and effects in high definition, which is perfect for me. Seeing all the details(and charming "flaws") in glorious hd is great.
     
  13. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Sorry, didn't yet see you beat me to the punch in stating the obvious above.
     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    Why the need to be insulting towards those who simply disagree with you? It's like you have no other argument than "dirty hippies are on your lawn".

    I like my HD set-up and I have no problem buying things that I want (though I have to save for them like 99% of people). I own The Original Series season sets on DVD and Blu-ray because I believe that each bring something to the table that I want (and I paid a hell of a lot less for the BRD version).

    As far as the Abrams films go, I guess I haven't grown up. Because part of the fun is nostalgia. I go to see a new take on old friends that I grew up with.
     
  15. Jonas Grumby

    Jonas Grumby Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Location:
    Somewhere in the South Pacific
    I dunno. Maybe he's just taking a cue from Shaka Zulu.
     
  16. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    I know it's been shown in this forum before, but not this thread. Had they done something like this complete CG overhaul to TOS, it would have been quite amazing. IMO if you're gonna make changes, no half measures. Make them big!
     
  17. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Location:
    Bulawayo Military Krral
    That's what I believe about the TOS and TNG re-dos also.
     
  18. Lenny Nurdbol

    Lenny Nurdbol Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Location:
    New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
    Who's being insulting? I'm giving a passionate and honest opinion (you know, strictly IMHO) of a film. Yeah, I know, I know, I know: say you Hate something when the Majority state they Love it is a major No-No in places like this. I suppose if we were to bring up "Spock's Brain" and I said that I Loved it while everyone else hated it, that would be Fine--reverse the situation though and one is called a "Troll" or "Flamer" or some such silly pigeonholed word for simply holding a different opinion.

    The bottom line is that I have Serious issues with Abrams movie. Serious Issues. Not just with what new crowd TPTB are now apparently aiming the name brand of "Star Trek" at...but more Personal issues, involving life and death...

    So just don't take anything I type here Personally. After all, IF I am "insulting" anyone, it is aimed at writers/directors/producers...and I don't think they are on here... One of the obviously unwritten rules of The Trek BBS is that it's perfectly okay to insult someone who isn't online here to defend himself... I understand that the reputation of B&B didn't go down too easily some years ago, either...

    And if a writer (say of a particular Star Trek novel) IS online here, Any and Every piece of negative criticism is unwarranted, unjustified, and worthy of a permanent ban... After all, it's easier to Delete one mere know-nothing fan as opposed to someone Blessed by the near-PTB who at least carry some visionary weight with Pocket Books...

    [This is why I'm keeping my mouth clamped shut like an Aldebaran shellmouth over "The R**gs of ****" which has got to be The Worst TOS Novel this fan has read in years, and believe me I've read just about all of 'em...]

    So Some Things Can Be Dissected And Analyzed (both pluses and minuses) while Other Things Cannot Be.
    That philosophy seems kind of hypocritical to me...
    Kind of like the different religions: they're Above criticism, regardless of how stupid and idiotic they are, because they're "holy"...and you don't want to insult certain groups of people, lest they start rioting...

    But I've babbled my way off-vector here a bit... Comes from drinking and typing at the same time...
    It just seems like such a huge waste of time and money to "jazz up" old episodes when they should simply be Preserved as best as possible Without any alterations...

    You know, a lot of us grew up dissecting Treknical aspects of TOS episodes... Ever read The Best of Trek? "Star Trek Mysteries--Solved"... Let's take for instance the re-use of matte paintings. The Lithium Cracking Station in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" on Delta Vega was recycled as the surface depot on Tantalus in "Dagger of the Mind" so fans came up with the idea that the cracking station was originally established on this planet but probably later abandoned after the planet ran dry of di/lithium...so, already settled, a penal colony was established there beneath the surface in the vacant mines already carved out... All this was wiped away by TOS-R when the matte painting was removed... There are other examples, many others. The re-use of the Rigel VII fortress from "The Cage" as Flint's residence in "Requiem For Methuselah" had fans speculating (in I believe the planetary summaries in the back of the Intro to Navigation Manual) that Holberg 917G was also "seeded" by the Kalar from Rigel VII, and thus built and identical fortress... THAT'S GONE NOW TOO, thanks to TOS-R...

    TOS-R even Unified the phaser beam colors! In TOS, the Enterprise fired red beams in episodes like "The Corbomite Maneuver" and yellow beams in "The Doomsday Machine" and blue beams in most third-season episodes... Treknical fans speculated (dating back to the Star Trek Giant Poster Book, if not earlier) that this was due to different phaser settings/intensity levels... The blow-torch beam in "The Naked Time" was invisible because it was infra-red... What does TOS-R give us? Blue beams everywhere for phasers,--at least for the ship's phasers...

    Sucked the fun straight out of being a TOS fan...

    It's like frigging Lucas all over again... Who shot first, Han or Greedo?
     
  19. 1001001

    1001001 I Like the Beats and Shouting Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Location:
    People's Gaypublic of Drugafornia
    Well, this is a little insulting, and it refers directly to the fans in several places...


    As for this...

    That is hardly keeping your mouth "clamped shut". You are entitled to your opinion of course, but this isn't even relevant to the thread.

    It wouldn't hurt to bring it down a notch or two.
     
  20. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    Eh, I've been there. No need to take it personally when people disagree with you. Even though it is sometimes annoying.
    It's not gone! You just press the button on the remote to switch between old and new, or watch the old pre-remaster DVDs or videos. I love the old Best of Treks too (in fact it was a certain somebody's Fandom Star Trek Chronology which pointed me to them in the first place, I've since managed to collect all but #17), IMO nothing has been lost or deleted or invalidated.

    But what about what was gained? I'm not a big fan of TOS-R, but some of the new CG backgrounds are beautiful. Maybe it looked that way, maybe it looked this way. Why does one version have to reign supreme over the other?