Doctor Who from the start (by a n00b)

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Start Wreck, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like both origins, but I probably enjoyed Genisis more than The Daleks. But I haven't seen either of them in years, probably before Matt Smith even became the Doctor.

    But one thing which always confused me about the daleks origins is does Genisis basically retcon or reboot the dead planet, or does something the timelords do create an alternate timeline? Or id the Davros saga just set before the dead planet, the when we see the dead planet, it's some time after Genisis?
     
  2. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Genesis of the Daleks, would obviously be before Dead Planet. However, The Time War means any number of Contradictions/Retcons can simultaneously exist, especially amongst Daleks and Gallifreyans. The Great Intelligence going into The Doctor's Time Stream and changing his victories to defeats, and then Clara jumping in and striking back and reclaiming those victories, IMHO, was a visual representation for us of The Time (Except Clara merely used defensive strikes aimed to set things back on course, both The Daleks and Time Lords would be making offensive strikes in each other's histories to hurt each other)
     
  3. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ah right. Really, I think Moffat's fucked up the Dales, almost if not beyond redemption. In Victory, he made them into the teletubby's personal toilets, and in Asylum, he magically bought back Skaro without any explanation, and also randomly gave us the Dalek Asylum. The concept of an asylum for daleks had more potential than most doctor who things, but 45 minutes was nowhere near long enough to fully explore it. All we got for 45 minutes was just rusty RTD daleks, Amy and Rory going through marriage issues, Clara Oswald being built up for series 7.2, and the doctor not taking the daleks seriously like 9, 10 or pretty much any other incarnation would have done. At the end of it, he just flew away from the daleks and pretty much for his entire incarnation let them get away with doing stuff, something which any other 10 incarnations of the doctor would have laid down the lives to sort out.

    As soon as Moffat finally fucks off into a hole in the ground after series 8, maybe we can actually sort out the daleks again, and get rid of cybermen which look like plastic and are so powerful, it's pretty much impossible to write a decent episode for them.
     
  4. Iamnotspock

    Iamnotspock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He's not in charge of Emmerdale as well is he?! Does the man ever sleep?

    There was never any statement that Skaro was inaccessible due to the Time War, like Gallifrey; that was a fan assumption. Its total destruction in Remembrance of the Daleks could have occurred at any point in time - we saw the Earth destroyed in The End of the World too, but that doesn't mean the show can't ever visit it again.
     
  5. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, just Doctor Who and his true love that god awful Sherlock.

    Good point. Maybe Davros there is from after the Stolen Earth. That's why only his head survives. But either way, I don't like having Skaro back unless we have a whole episode devoted to brining it back properly.

    Then again, in remembrance, the Hand of Omega destroyed Skaro in 1963, so unless every Dalek story with Skaro is set before 1963, there's a continuity hole bigger than Moffat's ego.
     
  6. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why are you compaining about Skaro existing after Remembrance in Moffat Who? Doesn't the beginning of The Enemy Within, tell us Seven picked up the Master from Skaro, long after Remembrance (In Seven's Time Line)
     
  7. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    Actually the dialog implies the "Hand of Omega" traveled through time when it approached Skaro's sun. Here's the transcript.

    DAVROS: I will teach you the folly of your words, Doctor. I will destroy you and demonstrate the power of the Daleks!
    DOCTOR [on screen]: Davros, I beg of you, don't use the Hand.
    DAVROS: Ah, Doctor, now you begin to fear.
    DOCTOR [on screen]: You're making a grave mistake.
    DAVROS: Activate the Omega device!
    DALEK: Omega device activated.
    (A little star flies out of the Mothership.)
    DALEK 2: Plotting course to home planet Skaro.
    DAVROS: Now the Daleks shall become the Lords of Time!
    DALEK 2: Entering Skaro time zone. First stage expansion. Primary neutrino release.
    DALEK: Core collapse instigated.
    DALEK 2: Danger! Instability! Reaction out of control.
    DAVROS: No, this cannot be correct!
    DALEK: Home planet Skaro about to vapourise.
    (The Hand leaves the system as the star goes supernova and takes the planets with it.)

    Hopefully someone else can remember the line, but earlier in that serial, I believe it's stated the Daleks had traveled back in time to 1963. So the "Hand" actually made Skaro's sun of the distant future (relative to 1963) go supernova.

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  8. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    BTW, for anyone wanting to quote exact lines from the various serisla, I recommend this site.

    http://www.chakoteya.net/doctorwho/index.htm

    This is where I grabbed the exchange posted above.

    It's a great resource!

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  9. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh. You have a point guys.

    So basically, Skaro being destroyed wasn't even a big deal? So basically, all the Daleks got pissy over nothing? Oh.

    Well if the 96 film/Enemy Within says so, it is. Also remember that the Enemy Within said the doctor is half human, so if I have to accept Skaro could still be around, you have to accept the doctor is half human. ;)
     
  10. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    It was a big deal to those Daleks, as it happened in their home time. Probably. Causing the Time War (probably). Which rewrote a lot of history (probably...).
     
  11. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Doctor Who is not the best series for anyone who enjoys a coherent continuity.
     
  12. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Speaking as a Highlander fan, its a lot more coherent than it isn't. Plus, with a show that has run for a collective 34 years, its not as bad as one'd think.
     
  13. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's not bad, but continuity is not the writers' priority.
     
  14. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    It shouldn't be their first priority (their first priority SHOULD be to tell a good story), but as you said, its not bad at all.

    Yeah, we kinda agree, don't we? :p
     
  15. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Damn. Yes, we do. What happened to us, man??? :scream::lol:
     
  16. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    In a show about Time Travel, they can simple say Time was re-written.
     
  17. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    My marathon continues and, at this rate, I should have finished before the anniversary special next month. Ace!

    I recently wrote a summary of the sixth Doctor, here.

    And I've just started watching the seventh, here.
    (I hope you enjoy reading that more than I enjoyed watching it. Urk!)
     
  18. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Although my first-watch marathon was finished last year, I've been continuing on with the 'reboot' series as a sort of second-watch refresher, and posting my opinions of each episode in the same fashion, but newly equipped with knowledge of the classic series that I never had last time. I was hoping to be finished before the start of season 8, but that's not going to happen now.

    Anyway, I'm currently knees-deep into "season 5" (or season 31, if you prefer!), having most recently watched Vincent and the Doctor. Thanks to anyone who's still following. This has been an epic journey. :)

    Recent highlights:
    Human Nature / The Family of Blood
    Blink
    Turn Left
    Summary of the Tenth Doctor (David Tennant)
     
  19. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    According to RTD it was Genesis Of The Daleks that started the Time War.
     
  20. Captain_Amasov

    Captain_Amasov Captain Captain

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    I never really liked the version of Skaro's history created in "Genesis of the Daleks", I sort of preferred the simpler and less obvious introduction to the Daleks and Thals, even if it is just a variant of the Morlocks and Eloi from the "Time Machine".