7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Shaka Zulu, Jul 7, 2013.

  1. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    .....according to this guy; :rolleyes:

    7 Things That Must Be In MAN OF STEEL 2

    As I said before in another thread about another article:

    Any agreements with this article, or disagreements?
     
  2. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    I somehow suspect they won't stray to far away from what the mainstream audiance knows about the Superman Universe. Ask the average person on the street what they know about the Superman Universe (aside from the Man of Steel himself)and you'll get

    Krypton
    Zod
    Daily Planet
    Lex Luthor
    Lois Lane
    Smallville
     
  3. TemporalFlux

    TemporalFlux Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the average joe would know Kryptonite before they would know Krypton.

    I think everybody expects Luthor in the sequel; if he doesn't show up, people might miss him. And while many don't know the character, I think the sequel is a good time to introduce Bizarro (though I doubt they'll actually call him Bizarro).
     
  4. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Yes but would they know about Maggie Sawyer and the SCU, I think not. Not saying you can't use them but perhaps it would be better to introduce them in the second film and use them as the antagonist in the third film.
     
  5. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    I know that and you know that, but the problem is, guys like the author want to see more than can be crammed into a two-hour movie, and so they want to see everything but the kitchen sink. I wish that they would stick to watching Superman Returns until their eyes fall out of their sockets, but something tells me they wouldn't have anything to write and bitch about.

    What really gets me (again) is that many people disappointed in the last movie wanted to see things like Superman fighting a giant spider, or Mothra (a quote of Kevin Smith in an interview about what he though Superman Returns was lacking.) Now that Snyder's given us the exact thing they wanted (action all of the time), people are still disappointed and pissed off. What gives?

    For myself, IF I were in charge of the next movie (and I think that Snyder did a great job with this one and it should be left as he and Nolan have written and directed it for the next one) I'd bring in Luthor and maybe Metallo, with Luthor being the boss and Metallo being the muscle that Luthor's secretly using to get rid of Superman because he hates him and wants him gone. But as I said, the movies are in the hands of Snyder & Nolan, and so things will have to be left to what they will come up with.
     
  6. Metropolis as a place and Luthor as a businessman are the only two that I think are really must haves for Man of Steel 2. The rest just seems like comic fanservice.
     
  7. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    Project Cadmus and the Newsboy Legion? I seriously doubt it. There's a lot of Superman material to mine without going that obscuro.
     
  8. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    Well, that seems like an unlikely laundry list of things to cram into a 2-3 hour sequel. But, as a fan, he's entitled to his opinion about what kinds of stuff from the comics he wants to see adapted to the big screen.

    As for Superman Returns, I think the movie had a sufficient amount of action. I think what people objected to was the kind of action in it. For the main climax of the film, I think they wanted to see Superman fight something/someone. Instead, he just threw a giant rock into space.

    Personally, I liked Superman Returns a lot better than Man of Steel. Despite its lack of fighting and Lex Luthor's ludicrous plan, I thought it at least felt like a Superman movie; and a very heartfelt one at that. To this day, I still get chills during that bit during the airplane/shuttle rescue sequence where Lois gets her first new glimpse of Superman in 5 years. All of the Superman/Lois/Clark stuff was absolutely right. And, to me, that's the essential core of Superman more than anything else.

    Man of Steel set a new standard as far as the scale of superheroics on the big screen. But I just felt that the heart of the film was missing. If you don't have Clark Kent in with the rest of the Daily Planet crowd, I don't think it qualifies as a genuine Superman story. The snappy push-pull between Clark & Lois was totally missing.
     
  9. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    Also, The Newsboy Legion have no place in a modern Superman/DC Comic context (hell, they didn't have any when they were 'reintroduced', in a manner of speaking, by John Byrne during his run in the mid-80s-these ones were clones of the originals, their 'fathers' having become part of Project Cadmus itself.) As well, there's no Jimmy Olsen, it's now Jenny Olsen, so the Newsboy Legion wouldn't really fit with a female unless they were all given a gender change and called the Newsgirl Legion (and there are really no 'newsboys' or 'newsgirls' anymore, making the point moot; DC isn't going to bring the Newsboy Legion back in the new 52 in anyway that I can see would work now.)


    I loved Superman Returns myself (and the airplane sequence, as well as the scene where Superman rescues Lois, her husband, and her boy), but as much as I would have loved to have seen a sequel to it, I've got to admit that time has marched on, and that Superman has to be made anew if it's going to survive as a entertainment franchise on film. As far as the 'heart' of the movie, it did exist; it was there in the scenes with Ma and Pa Kent, and the way that they imparted Clark/Kal with what he needed to be to become Superman eventually, and the way that Martha Kent mothered the older Clark/Superman despite all of what was going on; it was also there in the way that Jor-El helped Superman and Lois out against General Zod and company, and of what wisdom he imparted to his son as a holographic A.I.

    Keep in mind, Snyder and Nolan are setting up Superman and his world, that's why we don't see him as Clark Kent with the glasses and the job at the Daily Planet doing what he usually does with Lois, Jimmy/Jenny and Perry White (although we got a lot of the Daily Planet and how heroic the staffers are in a crisis!) All of this probably meant more to Snyder and Nolan than just doing the same set-up as existed in the Donner and Singer Superman continuity (and is similar to what was done, it seems, in The Amazing Spider-Man by not showing the Daily Bugle, J. Jonah Jameson and all of the rest of that set-up.) The fans/general public wanted this and brought this about by rejecting Superman Returns (I'm not saying that you did), now they all can put up or have a nice cup of shut the heck up-please.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  10. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    Newsboy Legion sounds a bit dated anyway.

    But Project Cadmus could be interesting. At the very least, it would be a way to introduce appropriate super-level villains into the story.

    I suppose it kind of makes sense that Lex Luthor wasn't in Man of Steel. That seems to be the trend nowadays that the first new movie in a well known property only hints at the main villain. He doesn't really appear until the 2nd movie. We've already seen this with Norman Osborn in The Amazing Spider-Man, the Joker in Batman Begins & The Dark Knight, and Professor Moriarty in the Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock Holmes movies.
     
  11. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    I suspect Lex Luthor will be in the sequel as the citizen of Metropolis who steps up to rebuild the city in the wake of the destruction caused by aliens -- and that will also be what drives his opposition to Superman, in the name of protecting humanity.
     
  12. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Didn't read the interview but that might have just been sarcasm from his infamous involvement with Jon Peters in trying to develop a Superman script.
     
  13. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, they are setting up Superman & his world. I get that. But I don't find that set up portion of it very interesting. I certainly see the echoes of the structure of Batman Begins in here. But I found Batman's origins interesting in a way that I'm just not interested in Superman's origins.

    Similarly, I found all the set up in The Amazing Spider-Man fairly tedious. But that was because it was just rehashing the same origin story we'd already seen in the 2002 Spider-Man movie (more or less). I wasn't so much bothered by the asbsence of the Daily Bugle, J. Jonah Jameson, et al., because I don't consider them to be so absolutely vital the the overall Spider-Man feel. But to me, Clark Kent & Lois Lane at the Daily Planet IS Superman. Anything else is just a random guy flying around in a cape.

    I'll give Man of Steel credit for at least not being a pointless rehash in the spirit of The Amazing Spider-Man. Man of Steel is a unique take on Superman's origins. I just don't find a pre-Daily Planet Superman to be particularly interesting or recognizable.
     
  14. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    Actually, they were reintroduced in the post-Crisis Superman titles in a story written by Roger Stern after Byrne's departure...and this was reviving characters and concepts that Jack Kirby had created as part of his own revival of the Newsboy Legion in the 1970s. In that version, I think they were just supposed to be identical sons of the original, now-grown Legion from the '40s, not clones.

    But yeah, sounds like somebody's personal pet favorite coming out, hardly a must-see in a Superman film for most moviegoers. On that note....

    Indeed, they were dated when Kirby brought them back in the 70s.

    And a very smart trend, as Nolan's Batfilms demonstrated....Better to save the main villain that everyone wants to see for his own film, rather than try to crowd him into the second half of the hero's origin film.
     
  15. shivkala

    shivkala Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I get where this guy is coming from, unfortunately, that place is somewhere between 1987 and the late 90's. I was a fan of the Superman comics during the time, but most of what he mentions is, in terms of the difference between comics now and comics 20 years ago, pretty dated. These concepts lend themselves more to a movie/show with a similar tone to Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman than Man of Steel. I loved those comics to death, but they belong in their own time, not now.

    Dissecting it point by point:

    This is one of his better ideas and it might work well if we see Metropolis being rebuilt. Suicide Slum might be where the poor who couldn't get out of the city live. In one of the Superman comics, Superman is helping rebuild Metropolis after a fight and focuses on Suicide Slum, because, as he reasons, that's where many of the blue-collar workers, who are out cleaning and repairing the city are. And it's those areas that are probably being overlooked by the people paying these workers. I could see Lex stirring some stuff up here, by talking the talk, but then retreating to his section of town, which would be the one that was rebuilt the fastest.

    And this is where he lost me. The Newsboy Legion, again is a fond memory from my youth of reading the Superman comics in the early 90's. However, even then, aside from the odd story, weren't really used to full effect. Sure they helped Superboy break out during "Reign of the Supermen," (more on that in a bit), but they were only minor players. So much so, they only had a small cameo in Justice League Unlimited, even though they probably would have made a good addition to the cast of Superman: The Animated Series.

    Plus, when's the last time you saw a kid selling newspapers on the street? Hell, I wonder if, even in a big city, there'd be enough kids delivering newspapers to form a "Legion."

    And we're back on track. Yes, Luthor should be a businessman in the Man of Steel universe. This is not a universe where Lex would work as a mad scientist or in his purple and green armor. He should be rebuilding Metropolis, but not with Kryptonian tech. He should be spearheading an effort to slander Superman as "alien" and dangerous. I'm not sure in the universe set up by Man of Steel though he should ever be the primary villain. Without his armor, mad science, or kryptonite, there's no way to have a climax of Superman vs. Lex.

    If they are very, very careful about this, then yes, I agree they should use the SCU or what it evolved into "The Science Police" (which, Legion of Super-Heroes reference aside, is a stupid name). It would only make sense for the police to be prepared to take down a threat on the scale of what they faced in the first movie. However, though it should be lead by Col. Hardy. I've got nothing against Maggie Sawyer, I like her as a character, probably moreso once they moved her over to Gotham, but it would only be logical to utilize Hardy in this capacity. If anything, have Maggie be in the SCU, maybe as a second in command to Hardy. Then, maybe Hardy could be transferred to another city (tying it into the Justice League idea, with a line like, "Hardy, they need you in Central City, there's meta activity happening there."). If they do use some version of the SCU, they had better well drop Dan "Terrible" Turpin in there as at least a cameo/Easter Egg.

    Another argument against Maggie, and again, this is nothing to do with her as a character, but more to do with not wanting to drag the movie down with too much baggage, is that it shouldn't devote too much time to secondary characters. I say, fit what I said about Hardy and the SCU into a prequel comic, and have the SCU in the movie, but only in the background.

    Here we go into 90's-ville again. Great for its time, but I don't see it fitting into the Man of Steel world, unless they are called in to experiment with left over Kryptonian DNA/bodies, as this guy suggests. But, I'm not sure I want the movies to head in that direction. However, cloning is an idea which doesn't always work well in execution. The DNAliens is an idea that would be better suited to, again, the DCAU, which did their own thing with Cadmus.

    Besides, what made Cadmus so effective was the link between them and Krypton, which had wars over cloning. Superman had a personal connection to Cadmus, once he found out that his planet and ancestors were involved in a long and bloody war, which eventually destabilized Krypton's core, leading to its eventual destruction. And, while the non-natural birth does point to Kryptonians using some form of genetic manipulation, if not outright cloning, it would take a lot to work it into a sequel.

    And, as much as I loved Dubbilex, the Guardian, and the other Kirby inspired creations, I don't see how it would work well in a sequel. Leave them as a small Easter Egg, with a nod to them getting possession of Zod's body, while S.T.A.R. gets the leftover tech.

    The comics even realized this, as the New Krypton storyline running through the Superman comics in 2009-2010 had a subplot with Jimmy investigating some secret government conspiracy. This lead him to check on Cadmus, to find Dubbliex, who told him that the original Newsboy Legion was killed. In addition, their clones were missing, presumed dead, as well.

    Later, Jimmy exposes the government group responsible for all-out war with the New Krypton and reveals he spread the word through a group of bloggers he dubbed, "The Newsboy Legion."

    Yes, but I think it's very easy to have this go very, very wrong. If they're not careful, it will come off as corny.

    I prefer it this way. The first movie is the origin and unless the villain is integral to the heroes origin (as Zod, being from Krypton, is), then there's no need trying to fit another villain's origin into the hero's. I'm not a big fan of the "Lex in Smallville" idea. Perhaps because I am beholded to Byrne's "Man of Steel" origin, but I don't see how having Clark and Lex meeting in Smallville as kids benefits anything. Besides, the way Man of Steel handled things, it'd be hard not to at least acknowledge that the kids Clark went to school with, must have put 2 and 2 together and identified the relationship between Clark and Superman. This is a problem they'll have to address somehow.

    Speaking of which, in an interview with Empire Magazine David S. Goyer implies Perry must know that Clark is Superman. I'm actually okay with this idea. It strains credulity that a dyed-in-the-wool "Newspaperman" like Perry, who made his way up the ladder at the Daily Planet on his strength as a reporter wouldn't at least suspect this.

    I think it was during "Hush" in Batman, where Bruce sees Perry and Clark interact as summarizes that Perry must know, but is respecting Clark (and Lois) by playing along. Bruce also guesses that the same must be true for Commissioner Gordon.

    I wouldn't mind a subplot where Lois, Clark, and Perry work on covering Clark's tracks a bit to make it harder for others to piece everything together.
     
  16. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The only things I think a sequel needs are a bigger dose of humor, and a more charismatic villain.

    Obviously we're going to see more of Metropolis and Lois and Clark, since that's where the first movie ended up. And I'd be surprised as hell if we didn't see the businessman Lex. So I don't think there's any real need to pinpoint those things.

    I'd love to throw in Supergirl and Bizarro too, since I'm a big fan of those characters, but that's more a wishlist than something I think the sequel really needs.
     
  17. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If they use Cadmus, they should use the original 1970s where Superman illegally and without permission takes tissue samples of his friends to grow clones - that would play well with modern audience...
     
  18. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We've had a serious over-exposure of Lex Luthor in Superman media. Different villain instead, please.
     
  19. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    Those aren't Kirby-inspired creations, they're Kirby creations (though Joe Simon would share the credit for the Guardian and the Newsboy Legion).
     
  20. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    I don't.

    Okay, that can work, so long as they don't go overboard with it.

    Lex is perfect for 2. It would be nice if 3 involved Doomsday and the death of Superman in some capacity, but that might come off as a rehash of Zod.