I put 'I don't know' and it's telling that until I read this thread it never even crossed my mind that there was a possibility of them having sex. I thought she somehow calmed him down with her mind and the finger trick- I guess I really wasn't fully aware of Pon Farr and what that meant when I last saw TSFS. So, what, EVERY 14-yr-old Vulcan has to do it? With whom, normally? Other 14-yr-old Vulcans?
Spock's fureral torpedo arrived on the surface late in the Genisis process, Spock's actual corpse was rejuvenated and not reorganized with protomatter. When the planet lost, what (cohesion?), the same thing didn't happen to Spock two point oh.
I was under the impression that Pon Farr was a result of the suppression of emotion, so the fact that an accelerated-growth non-disciplined Vulcan would undergo Pon Farr never felt right to me. If Pon Farr occurs regardless of the 'bottling up' of emotions, then that means Romulans should experience it as well (nothing says they don't, of course).
I never felt that the "bottling up of emotions" had anything to do with pon farr itself, rather the non-emotional thing made it harder for Vulcans to deal with pon farr as a part of their societal philosophy. While reserved, the Vulcans, as resently as ENT, didn't as a species wide culture embrace the teachings of Surak, but they apparently still experienced pon farr. Every seventh year Vulcans go into heat, that's straight forward biology. Everything beyond that is culture and ritual.
Same here. The argument seems sound, but when I watched that film for the first few times I didn't get the idea that they had sex.
There's never been any indication that they did. I always thought that pon farr was an emotional release due to everything being bottled up (like the Red Hour from "The Return of the Archons"). Romulans don't repress anything, so they would have no need for it.
That's the impression I got as well, but if that's the case, Young Spock wouldn't have gone through Pon Farr on Genesis. Oh well.
The key to Pon farr is in what Saavik says to David in the film: SAAVIK: It will be hardest on Spock. Soon he will feel the burning of his Vulcan blood. DAVID: But, I don't understand. SAAVIK: Pon farr. Vulcan males must endure it every seven years of their adult life. Pon farr occurs in every seventh ADULT year. You have to calculate from when they reach maturity, after which it occurs in seven-year cycles. The age of maturity has been suggested to be late teens to around the early twenties in some quarters. However, if you look at the cast listing for Search for Spock, the Spock going through Pon farr is listed as being 17 years old (Spock Age 17), the other ages being 9, 13 and 25 before he ages to Nimoy Spock. I think it's obvious that Spock and Saavik mated on Genesis. It was the only logical course of action in the circumstances. There are, after all only three options open to Vulcans to end Pon farr: 1. Take a mate 2. Participate in a kal-if-fee 3. Engage in intensive meditation Spock could not engage in kal-if-fee as the circumstances were not right. He could not engage in intensive meditation as his mind was melded with McCoy's: KIRK: What about his mind? McCOY: His mind's a void. It seems, Admiral, that I've got all his marbles The only option to prevent death, therefore, was mating and the only person to mate with was Saavik. I would have liked the few lines confirming a pregnancy to have been included in Voyage Home as I feel it would have given better closure for Saavik's character and would have made the scene with Saavik and Amanda standing side-by-side more moving and poignant. As it is, it has all been left open to interpretation and debate. I wonder what they will do in the reboot - will there be a Saavik written in at all in the future? Will they explore Saavikâs childhood as the reboots are set many years before the events of the original films? Will we see Spock finding and helping this poor abandoned child and turning her into his protege? What would be the implications for his new relationships? Or will we end up losing Saavik completely?
Wow, this thread has a thick layer of dust on it. You might notice that the last post was almost 3 years ago.
Didn't realise that threads were timebound I watched it on TV the other night, found this thread and thought I'd comment. Perhaps the thread is due a little bit of a bump to the top of the listing
I don't know that there's an official policy, but I have seen some moderators here indicate that we typically shouldn't post in threads that have been inactive for over a year (example), and suggest starting new threads on the topic.
I've been at forums where people got upset if you started a new thread when there was a similar one buried deep in the forums from a year or more back. I don't see any harm in continuing with an old thread, reviving an old conversation. Funny enough, I just watched STII and am about to watch STIII when I took a little break to go online, and found this. I never doubted for a second that Spock and Saavik had wild pon farr sex on Genesis. I have read the Pandora books and the Vulcan's Forge and Vulcan's Heart books, in that order. So I saw Spock as Saavik's father figure - which can easily be seen as the reason for Saavik's grief. The later romance came off kind of creepy because of that. I think Spock going thru pon farr on Genesis pretty much proves it's biological, which is what I thought. A psychological reason for pon farr wouldn't have all Vulcans having a psychological breakdown in the same pattern, some could go much longer, some much less. I don't recall anything about Romulans having pon farr, I assume that's a Vulcan think, much like their telepathic powers. It's a shame that Saavik being half Romulan wasn't developed in the movies, as that's an interesting aspect of her background. Saavik in STII definitely shows more emotion than we've ever seen from a Vulcan not under some kind of influence. Saavik is really likeable and interesting, and I think was and is generally pretty popular. I think the movies at that time could've benefited from having her around. She certainly wouldn't have made STV any worse. I do think Saavik being pregnant by Spock would've been an interesting twist. It's a shame that they wrote out Saavik so casually, I'd have liked to have seen her in the other movies, but I'm glad that they gave her role to Valeris, as I don't think that story suited Saavik. But then my opinion is drawn from novels and years of distance, I guess our opinion on Saavik would be pretty different if she'd had Valeris's story. I'd think with the age difference between Spock and Saavik it'll be a long time, if ever, before she shows up in the new universe.