‘Star Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

[Sindatur]

I'm not sure your meaning. I didn't say there was more exposition. Wrath of Khan worked for an audience because you could get the gist of what was going on regardless of preexisting knowledge/regardless of seeing Star Trek before, because of the plot and the narrative and the writing. Into Darkness failed because it expected its audience to just think of Wrath of Khan and Khan while watching it, and mentally invest a soul into everything going on.

I disagree. I think audiences not educated in Star Trek could easily get a handle on what was going in the film. Everything that the audience needs to know is in the film itself.

And from anecdotal evidence, it seems to me, that general Audience, without Preconceived notions of Wrath of Khan and Space Seed, seem to have picked up on them better, than the Trek nerds who say that stuff isn't there unless you have a prior Trek Education, YMMV, since it's my anecdotal evidence, not yours (General "You", not specific you).

 

[Ovation]

Emily Asher-Perrin at Tor.com explains the train wreck succinctly.

Yeah, that sums it up well. You do not release a piece of media to the public and then start cussing out the people who don't like your work. That's psychotic. I can't believe that anyone can defend Orci's remarks.

To those defending Orci, have you ever made of fun of or insulted Indiana Jones IV, The Star Wars Prequels, Mass Effect 3, Transformers, or anything else? Would it be okay if George Lucas or Michael Bay or whoever wrote you an angry letter calling you a child acting out against his parents, a piece of shit, and ending by telling you fuck off every time? Cause that's what Orci did.

I would have ZERO problems if they did it to anyone who was being assholish to them. Constructive criticism is fine. The vitriol these guys get on a routine business? Not fine. If they take "the high road" and don't respond, good for them. But if they choose to lob some back, they have my full support.

 

[Sindatur]

Emily Asher-Perrin at Tor.com explains the train wreck succinctly.

Yeah, that sums it up well. You do not release a piece of media to the public and then start cussing out the people who don't like your work. That's psychotic. I can't believe that anyone can defend Orci's remarks.

To those defending Orci, have you ever made of fun of or insulted Indiana Jones IV, The Star Wars Prequels, Mass Effect 3, Transformers, or anything else? Would it be okay if George Lucas or Michael Bay or whoever wrote you an angry letter calling you a child acting out against his parents, a piece of shit, and ending by telling you fuck off every time? Cause that's what Orci did.

I would have ZERO problems if they did it to anyone who was being assholish to them. Constructive criticism is fine. The vitriol these guys get on a routine business? Not fine. If they take "the high road" and don't respond, good for them. But if they choose to lob some back, they have my full support.

Yea, he often, did engage respectfully and genuinely with fans with Constructive criticism, it was when the guy got pissy and petty that, that Orci got pissy back.

 

[BigJake]

The vitriol these guys get on a routine business?

"Vitriol"? Please. Can we retire the fainting couch, here?

Orci wasn't responding to someone who was personally attacking him or calling him names or threatening him or something. There was nothing in the originating article or in anything said by the guy he challenged to "pitch" Star Trek that was particularly irrational or nasty or anything more than very, very mildly critical. The "child acting out against his parents" garbage looked even worse for its contrast to the article's deliberately generous and even-handed tone.

There was no excuse. Period.

Or because that's what Spock Prime is for?

[image removed - BJ]

[Embedded image converted to link. 3.3Mb filesize was slowing page-load. - M']

 

[Robert Comsol]

"As I love to say, there is a reason why I get to write the movies, and you don’t."

I presume that reason would be talent and/or good connections but I can't help but wonder if it's really a good thing that the next director thinks so highly of himself and so little of others.

He definitely creates controversy and attention, maybe that's why Paramount opted for him.

Bob

 

[BigJake]

^ Well, we don't know that they've opted for anyone yet. Orci being the ostensible "frontrunner" may or may not turn out to mean he actually has it.

 

[Ovation]

The vitriol these guys get on a routine business?

"Vitriol"? Please. Can we retire the fainting couch, here?

Orci wasn't responding to someone who was personally attacking him or calling him names or threatening him or something. There was nothing in the originating article or in anything said by the guy he challenged to "pitch" Star Trek that was particularly irrational or nasty or anything more than very, very mildly critical. The "child acting out against his parents" garbage looked even worse for its contrast to the article's deliberately generous and even-handed tone.

There was no excuse. Period.

Or because that's what Spock Prime is for?

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Ray-J-Stare-VH1-For-the-Love-of-Ray-J.gif

The article was, at best, inane. And Orci was clearly not restricting his response to the article's author. So yes, after all the shit (you seem to not like "vitriol") and abuse thrown his way, I have ZERO problem with his reaction (and, frankly, find it mild). I don't necessarily agree with everything he said in rebuttal, but I wholeheartedly (and twice on Sundays) approve of his decision to not sit mute. It's only a problem because, in an all too rare instance, people who have felt free to heap abuse on those who actually make the entertainment (because, hey, they're "fans" and they're "entitled") are upset because one of them threw some back.

 

[BigJake]

The article was, at best, inane.

Even if I bought that, so is making conversation by talking about one's commute. That doesn't make flying off the handle in response any less psychotic.

people who have felt free to heap abuse [etc]

You see, though this is a totally irrational and ridiculous summary of anything in that thread -- "abuse" being just as silly and thin-skinned an exaggeration as "vitriol" -- and a generally over-the-top response to most criticism of Orci, it's marginally okay for you to react this way because after all you're an Orci fan and a little bit of irrationality is common in fans. We're all subject to it from time to time. You at any rate don't have a professional connection to the product or a responsibility to anyone else who's working on it or promoting it.

Which is not at all Orci's situation.

 

[Ovation]

The article was, at best, inane.

Even if I bought that, so is making conversation by talking about one's commute. That doesn't make flying off the handle in response any less psychotic.

people who have felt free to heap abuse [etc]

You see, though this is a totally irrational and ridiculous summary of anything in that thread -- "abuse" being just as silly and thin-skinned an exaggeration as "vitriol" -- and a generally over-the-top response to most criticism of Orci, it's marginally okay for you to react this way because after all you're an Orci fan and a little bit of irrationality is common in fans. We're all subject to it from time to time. You at any rate don't have a professional connection to the product or a responsibility to anyone else who's working on it or promoting it.

Which is not at all Orci's situation.

I'm not a fan of Orci, as I haven't seen all that much of his stuff, though I don't dislike what little of his work I've seen. But I do dislike much of Michael Bay's work (something I usually get roped into watching with a group--not by myself) and I find a fair bit of Lucas' work worthy of criticism. Orci is rather immaterial to my point (I've noted elsewhere that I'd support Bay or Lucas as well, if they were in similar circumstances). And you still miss the point--when I said Orci wasn't limiting his response to the author of the article, I was not referring only to those in the discussion thread. I was referring to the crap that is easily found all over the internet and with which I am sure Orci, Bay and Lucas (and others) are quite familiar.

As for being "professionally attached" to the project--totally irrelevant. I guarantee you Paramount would have lost no money if he'd not apologized and that's all they care about.

Anyway, I'm not going to keep coming back to this. Basically, if Orci's outburst is actually a "train wreck", then the crybabies are really in charge. And I have no patience for crybabies.

 

[BigJake]

I was referring to the crap that is easily found all over the internet and with which I am sure Orci, Bay and Lucas (and others) are quite familiar.

Not an excuse either. Lashing out at an unrelated person because of other unspecified supposedly-worse complaints one has seen on the Internet somewhere would be just as dumb, or even dumber.

I have no patience for crybabies.

However, you should probably not make a habit of equating people who actually expect professionals to behave professionally with "crybabies." Because that's silliness.

Having said that, I'm done with this, too.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

"As I love to say, there is a reason why I get to write the movies, and you don’t."

Is it that frankly most of the fan ideas for Star Trek are not only fanwanky crap, but sometimes dull fanwanky crap

 

[Belz...]

Even if I bought that, so is making conversation by talking about one's commute. That doesn't make flying off the handle in response any less psychotic.

Again, how is it "psychotic" ? Exaggerated, perhaps. Uncalled for, I can see. But psychotic ?

 

[BigJake]

Even if I bought that, so is making conversation by talking about one's commute. That doesn't make flying off the handle in response any less psychotic.

Again, how is it "psychotic" ? Exaggerated, perhaps. Uncalled for, I can see. But psychotic ?

Just a figure of speech meaning "way over the top." I don't mean that he's literally psychotic, of course.

 

[Kelthaz]

Again, how is it "psychotic" ? Exaggerated, perhaps. Uncalled for, I can see. But psychotic ?

Just a figure of speech meaning "way over the top." I don't mean that he's literally psychotic, of course.

Yeah, same for me. I called him psychotic, but I didn't mean he's literally psychotic. He got upset, handled himself very poorly, and lashed out. We've all done something like he has at one point or another in our lives. Fortunately for me my poorer moments aren't publicized for millions of people to see. I'm not going to judge him from this one incident.

To be honest, I'm actually far more bothered by the fact that people are defending his reaction. The idea that people deserve to be insulted and cussed at because they didn't like a movie is disgusting.

 

[Amaris]

Again, how is it "psychotic" ? Exaggerated, perhaps. Uncalled for, I can see. But psychotic ?

Just a figure of speech meaning "way over the top." I don't mean that he's literally psychotic, of course.

Yeah, same for me. I called him psychotic, but I didn't mean he's literally psychotic. He got upset, handled himself very poorly, and lashed out. We've all done something like he has at one point or another in our lives. Fortunately for me my poorer moments aren't publicized for millions of people to see. I'm not going to judge him from this one incident.

To be honest, I'm actually far more bothered by the fact that people are defending his reaction. The idea that people deserve to be insulted and cussed at because they didn't like a movie is disgusting.

I have never behaved in a psychotic manner! *flips table* *sets room on fire* *releases bees*

 

[BigJake]

Not the bees! No! AGGHGHGGHALAAHGGH! Not the Bees!

 

[Kelthaz]

Damn. You beat me to it.

 

[Devon]

The idea that people deserve to be insulted and cussed at because they didn't like a movie is disgusting.

Exactly right. And those very fans should know better than to act that way toward the creative team or other fans in general.

 

[BigJake]

The idea that people deserve to be insulted and cussed at because they didn't like a movie is disgusting.

Exactly right. And those very fans should know better than to act that way toward the creative team or other fans in general.

Which of course didn't happen at all* in the incident that set Orci off. (Does reminding someone of inconvenient facts count as cussing them out or insulting them? Mileage apparently varies. )

* Not that it would constitute an excuse if it did, mind you. It's just that its not having happened, there's even less excuse.

 

[Tosk]

"As I love to say, there is a reason why I get to write the movies, and you don’t."

Is it that frankly most of the fan ideas for Star Trek are not only fanwanky crap, but sometimes dull fanwanky crap

Exactly! They're usually filled with plot points that don't make sense, some of the crew acting out of character, there's almost always some object or character from previous Trek that they just can't help bringing back, often they have some hokey new technology...

Just like the last movie, you might say.