Young Ensign Kim.... Poor old Harry!

[Garak007]

I was watching the Ep of Voyager where Harry Kim and B'Elanna Torres crash landed on that planet and the people there started doing plays about their crashing landing etc. I can't remember the name of the ep.

They described Ensign Kim as "Young Ensign Kim". I never heard B'Elanna Torres refer to him this way how did they know to refer to him that way? and the only person who would refer to him this way is Janeway.

Poor old Harry Kim even on a planet where nobody knows him they are all referring to him as Janeway does LOL!!!

 

[JanewayRulz!]

The name of the ep was "Muse".

You are right, that B'Elanna would not refer to him as "Young Ensign Harry Kim", she'd have called him "Starfleet" in her personal logs. Then again, one never knows if Janeway's personal logs were deleted from the Flyer's computer banks after her last trip.

I realize that many do not "appreciate" this particular ep, but I like it for many reasons, not the least of which is watching B'Elanna's face when the "Janeway" actress kisses the "Chakotay" actor.

From the first official Voyager Fan Fiction writer.

KELIS: These stories will continue for as long as we have the breath to tell them, and as long as our patrons remain wise and compassionate. And Voyager will continue on her journey to the gleaming cities of Earth where peace reigns, and hatred has no home.

 

[AuntKate]

Seska called him that first. I'm posting the lines, but you really have to hear her say it to appreciate it.

SESKA: I get the point. Can we make up now? Who else knows how to make your favourite soup like I do?
CHAKOTAY: No one, but we agreed a long time ago this wouldn't work.
SESKA: Look around, Chakotay. There aren't that many potential mates out here. Of course, if you're not interested, I have had my eye on young Ensign Kim.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well every one treats him like a child still, so they erroneously and deductively figured the man-child out to be a boy from the ships logs, or just B'Elannas.

And this is my most favourite episode of all.

 

[Garak007]

Seems you guys know about more of this arc then I do LOL!! I know the actor and the character has been getting a lot of flak on these boards but he does have his moments.

I point this out because it does seem out of place.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Seems you guys know about more of this arc then I do LOL!! I know the actor and the character has been getting a lot of flak on these boards but he does have his moments.

I point this out because it does seem out of place.

My problem is Harry is that he never grew out of his awkward kid phase. He had one chance in "Nightingale" in Season 7. But, instead of growing from this experience, he actually reverts.

IMHO, if you can't grow from something like that, you really don't deserve a new pip on your collar.

 

[AuntKate]

What gets me about "Nightingale" is that Harry actually takes advice from Seven of Nine!

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Just remember what Jethro Gibbs told McGee when "the young man" complained that Dinuzzo still calls him "probie" on NCIS. He asked McGee to guess what Jethro's senior field agent still calls now Senior Field Agent Gibbs after 18 years.

To Tom, and B'Elanna and the Captain, Harry will "always" be "young Ensign Kim". :-)

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Just remember what Jethro Gibbs told McGee when "the young man" complained that Dinuzzo still calls him "probie" on NCIS. He asked McGee to guess what Jethro's senior field agent still calls now Senior Field Agent Gibbs after 18 years.

To Tom, and B'Elanna and the Captain, Harry will "always" be "young Ensign Kim". :-)

It's not just that. It's that he still acts[/s] like "young Ensign Kim". A nickname or how others think of your is one thing, but how you actually behave is another. To me, he never actually grew as a person.

 

[Crewman47]

I looked it up on Memory Alpha there and I noticed that Harry and Belanna are actually the same age and Tom is three years older than the two of them. Is this just the fact that Belanna served in the Maquis that makes her seem more mature and experienced than Harry?

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I looked it up on Memory Alpha there and I noticed that Harry and Belanna are actually the same age and Tom is three years older than the two of them. Is this just the fact that Belanna served in the Maquis that makes her seem more mature and experienced than Harry?

I think that's part of it.

Harry lived a very sheltered life. You do remember Janeway saying his mother contacted her because Harry forgot his clarinet, right?

Whenever Harry's back story comes out, we always find he lived in a loving household with supportive parents and had a loving girlfriend.

It's hard to be tough-as-nails when you've never really had to fight for anything or had something really hard hit upside your head to make realized you have to toughen up.

B'Elanna, on the other hand, grew up with a Klingon mother and a father who abandoned her. She was constantly persecuted for not being Klingon enough and chastised for losing her temper. That's enough right there. Then, she leaves the Academy because of her temper and winds up joining a rogue group of misfits where she winds up taking charge a lot (I get the impression).

So, yeah, her life would probably mature her a lot faster than Harry.

 

[Mary Ann]

Seems you guys know about more of this arc then I do LOL!! I know the actor and the character has been getting a lot of flak on these boards but he does have his moments.

I point this out because it does seem out of place.

My problem is Harry is that he never grew out of his awkward kid phase. He had one chance in "Nightingale" in Season 7. But, instead of growing from this experience, he actually reverts.

IMHO, if you can't grow from something like that, you really don't deserve a new pip on your collar.

This. Harry does mature a bit along the way but not nearly as much as, say, Tom or B'Elanna. Harry's book-smart but he seems to have trouble learning from real-life (such as it is!) situations, especially where social and emotional maturity are concerned.

 

[Voyagerian]

Well, there is ''The Chute''(Season Three)in which our beleagured, put-upon Ensign has to ''man up'' in no uncertain terms, because he is faced with a prison station full of crusty, hard, and totally uncaring cons who will happily kill him for a meagre piece of food, or take a dead man's shoes right off his body before it's cold. Add to that, he and his best bud Tom have implants, which create increasing agitation, and mental effects, shown well in Paris, whom he must both deal with as a petulant child, shadow of his recent self, and keep them both fed, and safeguarded in a place where their only 'ally' turns them out, because he refuses to throw his best friend out to make it on his own...and Harry stands his ground, declaring ''But, HE'S MY BEST FRIEND!!!'' when the man tries to goad him into killing Tom as if he were just an insect.Harry refused to fall prey to temptation; he stayed true to his friend, and the values of his parents, and Starfleet.That took courage; how many men or women of any age might 'fall', in such circumstances. Now, in the light of any critiques...if then they would have built upon that as a growing experience, hm?...in any case, a favorite Kim ep for me, and one of Voyager's best...

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Well, there is ''The Chute''(Season Three)in which our beleagured, put-upon Ensign has to ''man up'' in no uncertain terms, because he is faced with a prison station full of crusty, hard, and totally uncaring cons who will happily kill him for a meagre piece of food, or take a dead man's shoes right off his body before it's cold. Add to that, he and his best bud Tom have implants, which create increasing agitation, and mental effects, shown well in Paris, whom he must both deal with as a petulant child, shadow of his recent self, and keep them both fed, and safeguarded in a place where their only 'ally' turns them out, because he refuses to throw his best friend out to make it on his own...and Harry stands his ground, declaring ''But, HE'S MY BEST FRIEND!!!'' when the man tries to goad him into killing Tom as if he were just an insect.Harry refused to fall prey to temptation; he stayed true to his friend, and the values of his parents, and Starfleet.That took courage; how many men or women of any age might 'fall', in such circumstances. Now, in the light of any critiques...if then they would have built upon that as a growing experience, hm?...in any case, a favorite Kim ep for me, and one of Voyager's best...

... and the next time we see him, he's right back the insecure Ensign who's still wishy-washy on things. That kind of experience should have lead Harry to have a bigger sense of ability and self esteem, but it didn't.

That's not growth.

We saw Tom grow as a character. He went from the bad boy to an accepted member to a loving husband. We saw B'Elanna grow from a hot head to a A+ engineer to a caring partner. We saw the EMH grow into a true sentient being. We saw Kes grow from a wide-eyed child to a strong and independent adult.

I could go on.

But, Harry just remained Harry despite all the action and experiences he had. He never really gained anything from them. He remained the same 'person' for seven years.

 

[TEH BABA]

120 years and still an ensign.