You and Androids

[RobertScorpio]

Blade Runner, Star Trek, nuBSG, Bicentinial Man, and many other scifi shows/movies have tried to put their spin on whether or not Androids of the future could be uses as a labor force.

What about you...if they created androids, with AI, and they were just as you see them on Blade Runner, or Bicentenial man, would you have any problem with subjecting them to our needs, and wants, since we created them. A labor forces, sexual partners at our disposal, go down the laundry list of what they could provide...where do you fall on this question, which I think, man kind will be dealing with sooner than later...

Rob

 

[Aquehonga]

In reality they'd be neither alive nor conscious so they're ideal to serve any/all human needs & wants/aid/help.

 

[Christopher]

^^Maybe. In theory, a sufficiently advanced AI could be sentient and conscious, but there's no reason to assume that a robot built with a human shape would have a conscious brain within it as opposed to a simpler computer control -- or, conversely, that a sapient AI would be put inside an android body rather than some other form.

Androids as a labor force make little sense, since if you're going to build a robot to do work, there's no particular reason to make it look like a human. Androids, robots designed to emulate the appearance of humans, would exist for a limited range of purposes, mainly for jobs involving interaction with humans -- with sexual interactions probably topping the list. Androids would be a small subset of robots in general.

As for the whole slavery thing, that doesn't really make sense. If you're going to create a machine to be an obedient servant, why would you build it with the ability to think for itself? That's counterproductive. Especially when that would be a very complex and probably very expensive thing to achieve. Again, RobertScorpio, you need to keep in mind that real life isn't like fiction. Stories about sapient robots held in slavery are meant as allegories for injustices among humans, not as realistic predictions.

A more worthwhile question is what androids would do to human psychology and relationships. If we could have simulated romantic partners programmed to conform to our fantasies and desires, would we be willing to settle for the imperfections and difficulties of relationships with real people?

 

[RobertScorpio]

^^Maybe. In theory, a sufficiently advanced AI could be sentient and conscious, but there's no reason to assume that a robot built with a human shape would have a conscious brain within it as opposed to a simpler computer control -- or, conversely, that a sapient AI would be put inside an android body rather than some other form.

Androids as a labor force make little sense, since if you're going to build a robot to do work, there's no particular reason to make it look like a human. Androids, robots designed to emulate the appearance of humans, would exist for a limited range of purposes, mainly for jobs involving interaction with humans -- with sexual interactions probably topping the list. Androids would be a small subset of robots in general.

As for the whole slavery thing, that doesn't really make sense. If you're going to create a machine to be an obedient servant, why would you build it with the ability to think for itself? That's counterproductive. Especially when that would be a very complex and probably very expensive thing to achieve. Again, RobertScorpio, you need to keep in mind that real life isn't like fiction. Stories about sapient robots held in slavery are meant as allegories for injustices among humans, not as realistic predictions.

A more worthwhile question is what androids would do to human psychology and relationships. If we could have simulated romantic partners programmed to conform to our fantasies and desires, would we be willing to settle for the imperfections and difficulties of relationships with real people?

but what if, in true scif form, these future robots achieve the ability to think for themselves. I mean, thats how it happens in alot of these 'android' story shows...life will find away, ect....even A I forms of it..

Rob

 

[Aquehonga]

Androids as a labor force make little sense, since if you're going to build a robot to do work, there's no particular reason to make it look like a human. Androids, robots designed to emulate the appearance of humans, would exist for a limited range of purposes, mainly for jobs involving interaction with humans -- with sexual interactions probably topping the list. Androids would be a small subset of robots in general.

Quite true Christopher.

You make very good points.

There are & would be many jobs robots can & will do which would be difficult if not impossible to do in a human form.

 

[captcalhoun]

but what if, in true scif form, these future robots achieve the ability to think for themselves. I mean, thats how it happens in alot of these 'android' story shows...life will find away, ect....even A I forms of it..

Rob

how wuold they?

 

[RobertScorpio]

but what if, in true scif form, these future robots achieve the ability to think for themselves. I mean, thats how it happens in alot of these 'android' story shows...life will find away, ect....even A I forms of it..

Rob

how wuold they?

Who knows? Perhaps, after these mindless things are built, someone comes along and secretly implants AI into their minds...

But someday they will combine AI with androids. The question is, will they, like Guinan and Picard worried about, ever be considered life forms, and if they are, how would we as a society deal with them..

Blacks, here on Earth, were enslaved for hundreds of years because of the belief they were not true-humans. My point being? We always find away (and I mean mankind) to create loop holes...

Rob

 

[Silvercrest]

but what if, in true scif form, these future robots achieve the ability to think for themselves. I mean, thats how it happens in alot of these 'android' story shows...life will find away, ect....even A I forms of it..

Rob

Okay, so if they do-- why are you just focusing on androids? There's just as much chance of a stationary computer achieving sentience as there is of an android doing the same. Doesn't the question apply to both?

 

[RobertScorpio]

but what if, in true scif form, these future robots achieve the ability to think for themselves. I mean, thats how it happens in alot of these 'android' story shows...life will find away, ect....even A I forms of it..

Rob

Okay, so if they do-- why are you just focusing on androids? There's just as much chance of a stationary computer achieving sentience as there is of an android doing the same. Doesn't the question apply to both?

Sure, it would, I agree. And even the future hologram characters like DOC and VIC.....

But Androids have been feature in many great films dealing with what we are talking about..All I am asking is if someone believes that man has domain over creations, even those that are AI, that he himself creates...androids are easier to vison beling slaves than my XBOX360...though, I must admit, I abuse it pretty bad!!!

Rob

 

[Christopher]

Any sapient, thinking being deserves freedom, regardless of how it comes into being. We "create" our biological offspring, but that doesn't mean we own them.

Besides, if AIs do gain sapience, and if we oppress and abuse them out of fear, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and we'll drive them to rebel, at our peril. It's in our best interests as well as theirs to treat them with respect and ensure their liberties, so they'll have no incentive to turn on us.

 

[Mistral]

Actually, if a stand-alone computer achieved sapience, how would we know? The environment of a computer would have nothing in common with Man's. Barring intentional interface programs, there just wouldn't be any common ground. If you read Heinlein's The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, the opening chapter or so deals with exactly this problem.
As for androids-Frankenstein by Shelley struck such a chord in our cultural subconscious that I'd have to say that any humaniform robot that exhibited intelligence similar to ours would be looked on with suspicion and hatred by the 95% of the population that thinks with their ass instead of their brains. IMO, there's little chance of an android insurrection because the general populace would never let them pervade society in any numbers due to irrational fear. Remember, the pitchforks and torches don't lay very deep beneath society's surface. In the end, though, Christopher is right in that it devolves into a question of "Why bother?" where installing AI in android forms is concerned. The process wouldn't be cheap, I suspect. Or easy.

 

[Aquehonga]

Any sapient, thinking being deserves freedom, regardless of how it comes into being. We "create" our biological offspring, but that doesn't mean we own them.

Besides, if AIs do gain sapience, and if we oppress and abuse them out of fear, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and we'll drive them to rebel, at our peril. It's in our best interests as well as theirs to treat them with respect and ensure their liberties, so they'll have no incentive to turn on us.

That's the mistake the Quintessons of G1 Transformers cartoon lore made. Making sentient machines (TFs) that eventually kicked the Quincies off their own homeworld. The Quincies were too good at their craft.

But the Quincies themselves were sentient machines.

Who made them

 

[FalTorPan]

But the Quincies themselves were sentient machines.

Who made them

Godaikin.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Androids would be deliberately programmed not to be sentient, just to avoid the problems you pose. They'd have the intelligence of household pets. There might be some value in making robots appear human, but not in making them intelligent.

Actually, if a stand-alone computer achieved sapience, how would we know? The environment of a computer would have nothing in common with Man's.

Exactly, and they wouldn't be androids anyway because nobody would bother to make them look human. Human-looking robots or computers are interesting in fiction, but I don't really see them being that prevalent in real life. Computer intelligence, which will evolve into something very different from human intelligence, is another thing entirely.

For starters, computers may become vastly intelligent but they won't be individuals - what would be the point of that? An extremely intelligent "robot" with no sense of individuality might be worthy of respect in the abstract, but humans won't see it that way. Humans respect only beings who are like themselves.

Even for sexbots - and there's certainly no reason for them to have anything more than rudimentary intelligence - some enterprising designer could probably figure out more imaginative forms than dreary old human forms...is it really that hard to find flesh and blood sexual partners? (Says the female in the crowd, I guess I shouldn't talk. ) Why not opt for something more imaginative that you can't find in human form?

 

[nx1701g]

Androids would be deliberately programmed not to be sentient, just to avoid the problems you pose. They'd have the intelligence of household pets. There might be some value in making robots appear human, but not in making them intelligent.

Dr. Alfred Lanning: There have always been ghosts in the machine. Random segments of code, that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols. Unanticipated, these free radicals engender questions of free will, creativity, and even the nature of what we might call the soul. Why is it that when some robots are left in darkness, they will seek out the light? Why is it that when robots are stored in an empty space, they will group together, rather than stand alone? How do we explain this behavior? Random segments of code? Or is it something more? When does a perceptual schematic become consciousness? When does a difference engine become the search for truth? When does a personality simulation become the bitter mote... of a soul?

 

[Zachary Smith]

It would be okay to build androids and use them as slave labor so long as they were built to resemble DAMN DIRTY APES!!!!.

How could anyone see THAT leading to ANY kind of trouble?

 

[melancholymecha]

I think we'll only see human like androids show up as custom side-projects, like that guy(from Canada I think?) that recently made his own robot girllfriend.

 

[Klaus]

...and we're also a long ways from the kind of AI required to either be a threat or to demand rights... and based on the pace of human progress in ensuring rights for various groups, I hope the androids don't hold their breath!!

 

[votd]

Surely it would make more sense to have an AI remotely control many android bodies, it's not really slave labour, just a higher intelligence controlling a dumb construct while it indulges itself doing 10,000,000 other simultaneous tasks.

 

[Mistral]

Surely it would make more sense to have an AI remotely control many android bodies, it's not really slave labour, just a higher intelligence controlling a dumb construct while it indulges itself doing 10,000,000 other simultaneous tasks.

Near the end of the I, Robot book of stories that's the way things end up....