Yeomen in Star Trek, but not the US Navy

[Sgt_G]

Well, fortunately, they have reversed the decision and will keep rating titles.

They tried to sell it as a plan to expand and overlap job descriptions to allow more and better career choices for sailor, (and they are keeping that part of the change) but when pushed on the issue they admitted it was all about political correctness. The wanted to eliminate "man" from any and all job titles. Funny thing is, a high percentage of Yeoman are female, and very few have ever complained about the rating / job title. My wife knew one such, and the only reason she made any noise about it was she thought it might improve her chances to cross-train out to another rating.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

That said, the task (to eliminate 'sexist' titles) wasn't actually that complicated, and at least one article I came across suggested that if they had just stuck to that then some people would have complained about 'losing the history, and 'political correctness' but it wouldn't actually have harmed anything (which dropping the ratings entirely could have done.) so things would have gone back to normal quickly enough. It's not like there haven't been name changes and amalgamations in the past.

The same article suggested that some of the new titles might actually have been an improvement as they better explain the (modern) role of the sailors in question. For example they were considering changing Fireman Recruit/Fireman Apprentice/Fireman to Engineer Recruit/Engineer Apprentice/Engineer, Legalman to Naval Paralegal (as they have similar level of training of a civilian paralegal by PO1) or Yeoman to Navy Administrative Specialist or Executive Support Specialist. All of which seem fine to me.

 

[Darkwing]

Well, if you think that PC titles will undermine the world's best navy, I don't know what to tell you.

Our leadership keeps losing it's way and trying to ditch tradition without even understanding what they're eliminating.
Beyond that, PC is incompatible with military life. I once had a Command Master Chief that wanted to conduct the Crossing the Line ceremony by sailing over the equator, mustering the crew for an awards ceremony, and giving everyone shellback certificates with NO actual hazing. He was startled and severely taken aback to find out we all wanted to actually earn our shellback status. Fortunately, he got overruled, and we became real shellbacks.

 

[Darkwing]

Well, if you think that PC titles will undermine the world's best navy, I don't know what to tell you.

Our leadership keeps losing it's way and trying to ditch tradition without even understanding what they're eliminating.
Beyond that, PC is incompatible with military life. I once had a Command Master Chief that wanted to conduct the Crossing the Line ceremony by sailing over the equator, mustering the crew for an awards ceremony, and giving everyone shellback certificates with NO actual hazing. He was startled and severely taken aback to find out we all wanted to actually earn our shellback status. Fortunately, he got overruled, and we became real shellbacks.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Just change half the gendered rank names to be "-woman" instead of "-man".

Since it's no big deal for women to be called" Yeoman" it's also no big deal for men to be called "Seawoman".
("But it's always been this way" is never a valid reason for anything.)

People will get used to it quickly. It's not going to disrupt anything and the minor changes are easy to memorize.

Fixed.
Now it's fair and just as easy as before.

You're welcome.

 

[Squiggy]

Our leadership keeps losing it's way and trying to ditch tradition without even understanding what they're eliminating.

If having the title of your position change keeps you from effectively doing your job then you probably shouldn't be doing that job.

Also, traditionally, American naval vessels were wooden frigates. Shit changes. People adapt. If you can't deal with it then move to Lancaster, PA.

 

[Gaith]

For example they were considering changing Fireman Recruit/Fireman Apprentice/Fireman to Engineer Recruit/Engineer Apprentice/Engineer

Fair enough.

Yeoman to Navy Administrative Specialist or Executive Support Specialist. All of which seem fine to me.

Ugh, no. There's not only historic value but elegant brevity in the two-syllable term "yeoman." If you're going to suggest a replacement, how about one that doesn't add six to seven syllables?

Legalman to Naval Paralegal (as they have similar level of training of a civilian paralegal by PO1)

Similar, maybe, but hardly identical - I'm pretty sure the average Legalman First Class would require additional training before becoming a civilian paralegal. Nor do I see an inherent downside to a job title that's unique to the military when the military is a unique field and environment.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Ugh, no. There's not only historic value but elegant brevity in the two-syllable term "yeoman." If you're going to suggest a replacement, how about one that doesn't add six to seven syllables?

The "Navy" bit is probably to avoid conflicting with AS (Aviation Support Equipment Technicians) allowing for NA, NAS or NZ (based on Aviation Maintenance Administrationmen/Aviation Administration Specialist)

 

[Gaith]

^ Yeomen are basically secretaries/clerks, so it'd be fairly logical to suggest a rating of either of those titles. That said, I favor keeping it "Yeoman" over such a change.

 

[Sgt_G]

The problem with the word "engineer" in place of "fireman" for junior enlisted is that it would be confusing with the Chief Engineer and other engineering officers.

A friend of mine is a Professional Engineer by training and may put P.E. after his name in a signature block. He told us a story about a company (phone or TV cable??) that was calling the guys who came to your house to fix things a "Field Engineer". The problem is, unless you have a four-year degree and passed a certification test, you can't call yourself an engineer of any type. The only exception, of course, is the guy who drives a train. The professional engineer association sent that company a "nice" letter, and they changed the title to "field technician" instead.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The problem with the word "engineer" in place of "fireman" for junior enlisted is that it would be confusing with the Chief Engineer and other engineering officers.

A friend of mine is a Professional Engineer by training and may put P.E. after his name in a signature block. He told us a story about a company (phone or TV cable??) that was calling the guys who came to your house to fix things a "Field Engineer". The problem is, unless you have a four-year degree and passed a certification test, you can't call yourself an engineer of any type. The only exception, of course, is the guy who drives a train. The professional engineer association sent that company a "nice" letter, and they changed the title to "field technician" instead.

Interesting, possibly they didn't know that. Would Engineering Recruit, Engineering Engineering Apprentice, Engineering Specialist have been acceptable? Otherwise Technican Recruit, Technician Apprentice, Technician might have been an option?

 

[Anna Yolei]

Our leadership keeps losing it's way and trying to ditch tradition without even understanding what they're eliminating.
Beyond that, PC is incompatible with military life. I once had a Command Master Chief that wanted to conduct the Crossing the Line ceremony by sailing over the equator, mustering the crew for an awards ceremony, and giving everyone shellback certificates with NO actual hazing. He was startled and severely taken aback to find out we all wanted to actually earn our shellback status. Fortunately, he got overruled, and we became real shellbacks.

....Whut

I'm glad he got overruled on that. The shell back ceremony I had going towards Sydney was fun for the most part besides the decon chamber. It ain't no sexy gel cabin like Enterprise I almost had to go through again, and I damn near tapped out, but got a reprieve by our King Neptune the CMC (since the CO at 20 years in was also getting initiated ).

Only one person quit out of the 100 of us, but he was that pissy whiny type who was counting down the days to his much-encouraged separation.

 

[Anna Yolei]

As for the stupid title thing...fuck it. As others have said, the Navy is not and never will be a PC environment, despite all the howls I've heard after the authorization for sex changes suggesting otherwise. There are so many Arleigh Burke sized fish I'd like to fry before touching that. Every sailor would gladly trade PC rate titles for 1330 liberty and what was known as the Johnny Carson workweek (Monday through Thursday).

It's not called the Jon Stewart workweek because such a concept no longer existed when he came around.