Y R Trek Fans So Against Letting Characters Die?

[Dayton3]

It seems like whenever a character in a Trek series appears likely to be killed off you get a huge outcry from Trek fans.

Sometimes even a minor character such as Suzi Plaksons half Klingon character K'ehlyr (mispelled, I know) who only appeared in two episodes.

Why?

Doesn't having character die make a series (especially one that takes place in a very dangerous environment) more grounded in reality.

You don't see NCIS fans calling for Agent Caitlyn Todd to be resurrected or ER fans droning on about Dr. Mark Greene.

 

[Mach5]

Doesn't having character die make a series (especially one that takes place in a very dangerous environment) more grounded in reality.

Exactly why I'm not big on character deaths. I think of Star Trek as a refuge from the real world, an oasis of fun an optimism, and excessive dieing kinda defeats it's purpose (strictly my personal POV).

 

[Marie1]

^ Exactly. Death may make the show realistic, but I don't watch shows like ST for a dose of real life... if I wanted a bunch of death, I'd watch the news.

Not to say death isn't necessary, even, I'd say, in cases like Damar on DS9...
But its not cool... I'm less worried about minor characters than I am major ones like Jadzia. But I will say that, naturally, the deaths of fav. characters is the worse... and that it also bothers me when it happens in the novels- actually, my response for minor characters dying in books is farrrr worse than in the shows.

 

[Forbin]

Doesn't having character die make a series (especially one that takes place in a very dangerous environment) more grounded in reality.

Exactly why I'm not big on character deaths. I think of Star Trek as a refuge from the real world, an oasis of fun an optimism, and excessive dieing kinda defeats it's purpose (strictly my personal POV).

One I share. Well said.

 

[Mistral]

Doesn't having character die make a series (especially one that takes place in a very dangerous environment) more grounded in reality.

Exactly why I'm not big on character deaths. I think of Star Trek as a refuge from the real world, an oasis of fun an optimism, and excessive dieing kinda defeats it's purpose (strictly my personal POV).

One I share. Well said.

Yup!

 

[Eric Cheung]

I think characters should die. Yes, Trek is supposed to be escapism, but it's also supposed to be compelling drama. What compelling drama could there be if all the characters are immortal? I even liked Kirk's death because it was an unconventional death for a hero. The whole point was that even heroes can die from something like an accident, or indirect injuries from a battle, or simply dumb luck.

 

[LeadHead]

Deaths can make for good storytelling, give a character an arc, the problem is deaths done right. Like Tucker in Enterprise, soooooooo badly done. Also I think there's a reverse feeling to the fan of being screwed with in any action oriented series, you went along for the ride on so many life and death scenarios and then they... die. There can be, well why did you have them 2 inches from death and let them live the last time? You were gonna kill him/her, you just dragged it out.

 

[Eric Cheung]

Tucker's death sucked, but I wouldn't feel cheated if a character dies in an action series. The character probably wouldn't feel cheated either. That character cheated death so many times that one of those times death was bound to catch up to him/her. What would cheat the viewer is if that death didn't have an impact on the other characters. The other characters serve as surrogate mourners for the audience, and if they're deprived of sufficient grieving time then so is the audience. That's one reason why Tucker's death didn't work. It was sort of tacked onto the episode.

Kirk's death on the other hand worked because he died twice. The first death established the themes, and prepared the audience, for his eventual death by the end of the film. It also tied into the idea from Star Trek V that Kirk would die effectively alone, with only a stranger at his side.

 

[Marie1]

The trouble with a "good" death is that they're soooo sad...
Marritza, Ghemor, Ziyal, (Almost every Jem'Hadar for me... )
They were tragic, and its not like their deaths saved the universe...

 

[TheGodBen]

Deaths can make for good storytelling, give a character an arc, the problem is deaths done right.

Exactly right.

I hate it in Star Trek when Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Lt Harris beam down to a planet because you're never in any doubt as to which one isn't coming back. The audience isn't going to buy that the big three are ever in any real danger. TNG was better because Tasha died off in some random episode, so there was always some doubt if not much.

I think if there is ever another series they need to include a character to build an arc around for the first two seasons and them randomly kill them off some time in season three with a powerful death scene. Star Trek is about people risking their lives for the betterment of mankind, for that to work you need suspense and danger.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

The trouble with a "good" death is that they're soooo sad...
Marritza, Ghemor, Ziyal, (Almost every Jem'Hadar for me... )
They were tragic, and its not like their deaths saved the universe...

Yeah...those "good" deaths really leave you reeling. I cried SO hard when I saw "Ties of Blood and Water"...

Yet I rank that as one of the best episodes because of how deeply it moved me.

 

[TEH BABA]

Crashdown had a good death

 

[Marie1]

The trouble with a "good" death is that they're soooo sad...
Marritza, Ghemor, Ziyal, (Almost every Jem'Hadar for me... )
They were tragic, and its not like their deaths saved the universe...

Yeah...those "good" deaths really leave you reeling. I cried SO hard when I saw "Ties of Blood and Water"...

Yet I rank that as one of the best episodes because of how deeply it moved me.

Me to...
I still do, and what Kira says after... I have a hard time watching the end of that one... and there's another one thats super sad that hasn't been mentioned... its name escapes me atm... but I hate watching stuff when I *know* I'm going to cry...

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

If you describe what happened, I can probably tell you.

And with "Ties"...I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds it appropriate, what Kira says at the end. I've seen some people claim that bit was an unnecessary scene, or too long--but I personally think that it was needed to convey the sense that even if there was no blood tie, she was taking it as hard as losing a family member.

 

[Lord Garth]

You don't see NCIS fans calling for Agent Caitlyn Todd to be resurrected

NCIS is not science-fiction.

or ER fans droning on about Dr. Mark Greene.

ER has a revolving cast door. There's no one in the main cast from 1994. As far as I know, all the current main characters are from the tenth season or later.

As for deaths in Trek, I think it's had to do with how the characters were killed. Sure people were sad that Spock died but he was killed off well. Harve Bennett is the one who decided it was too sad. And Leonard Nimoy was one who started to have second thoughts about not wanting to have anything to do with Star Trek again, when he enjoyed working on TWOK so much.

Yar wasn't killed off well but it was redeemed.

K'Eylar was killed off well and I think there was more disappointment than outcry or sadness. Difference.

Some thought Kirk was killed off in a crappy manner and complained. Some thought Trip wasn't killed off well and they definitely complained. The same with Data.

No one likes the way Jadzia Dax was killed but they understood why she had to be no matter how badly it was executed. And I know I just walked into a pun.

And as was mentioned above, no one lost any sleep over Damar's death. The worst anyone thought about it was "kind of too bad he wasn't more than just martyr..." Not the same as outcry to me.

It all depends upon the context of the situation.

 

[CaptJimboJones]

or ER fans droning on about Dr. Mark Greene

From the Dr. Mark Greene Memorial Site:

As I watched you make that final basket and say that final goodbye to Carter, I cried. When the ER crew received your letter I cried even more. And as I sat there last Thursday night watching you on your deathbed I cried until I could cry no more because I knew that I would never see that bald smiling face again. Then I saw you peacefully dying in your sleep and I realized that you wouldn’t want me to cry for you but I couldn’t help it because I cared.
Now that you are gone, I feel as if I have lost a dear friend. I will never forget you or your miracles, Mark Greene. You will live on in my heart forever.
“Where troubles melt like lemon drops”
“And way above the chimney tops”
“That’s where you’ll find me."

Love Always... LD

Rest in Peace- Dr. Mark Greene 1994- May 9th 2002.

So yeah, it's not just Trek fans.

 

[Marie1]

If you describe what happened, I can probably tell you.

And with "Ties"...I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds it appropriate, what Kira says at the end. I've seen some people claim that bit was an unnecessary scene, or too long--but I personally think that it was needed to convey the sense that even if there was no blood tie, she was taking it as hard as losing a family member.

I think about it... though I think it was a silly reason... pretty sure it wasn't Opaka... argh, think think think...

I think it was great, and made the very end make sense...
And its a huge way of showing her evolution to someone who at first I'm sure did hate Cardassians... to someone who was willing to bury a Cardassian soldier who served on Bajor beside her father.

I felt terrible for Marritza, I'm glad Kira was with him too.

I watched the Visitor for the first time in a long while, and I'm convinced I wouldn't have been as teary if everyone hadn't said it made them cry!! *shakes fist*

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I think it was great, and made the very end make sense...
And its a huge way of showing her evolution to someone who at first I'm sure did hate Cardassians... to someone who was willing to bury a Cardassian soldier who served on Bajor beside her father.

I think that at first, Kira's hatred was pretty much without boundaries. But I think over time, she learned to see the Cardassians as individuals and judge them the way she would Bajorans--as individuals, according to their character and actions.

I felt terrible for Marritza, I'm glad Kira was with him too.

One thing with Marritza that was especially sad to me was this: I have the feeling he was screwed no matter what. And perhaps even having him die on DS9 was a preferable fate to what would've awaited him when he got home. In order to maintain appearances, Sisko had to go through proper diplomatic channels in dealing with Marritza--which of course meant contacting the Cardassian authorities. Excepting the slim chance that someone in the dissident movement might manage to get to him before anybody else could...I suspect he would've been killed upon return. Or at least "disappeared" for the rest of his life.

 

[Marie1]

^But Marritza spent all those years off-planet, so he must've had contacts off Cardassia to help him... right? Maybe?

And once it became common knowledge of his guilt, and what he felt when he changed his face... surely they couldn't all react like his murderer did... but maybe thats too optimistic for the time.

It just sucks that he died, because I think Kira was right, Cardassia did need more like him... well, maybe not suicidal, but willing to confront the issues.

 

[Eric Cheung]

You don't see NCIS fans calling for Agent Caitlyn Todd to be resurrected

NCIS is not science-fiction.

All shows, no matter the genre (drama, comedy, science fiction, etc.), are stories about people first. To be compelling, and for tension to exist there needs to be a sense of danger to those characters. If even Superman could die, then all characters are could die. As with anything, it's the execution, but even if a death isn't executed well, there better be a damn good reason to resurrect that character or else the storytellers lose the credibility they have left, because storytelling is about committing to a premise and following through with it.