XBox 360 Red Ring of Death advice

[Elim Garak]

I got a 360 Pro model as a gift in 2008, and it has served me well. Hearing all the horror stories about the Red Ring of Death, I kept it in a cool environment. Not having any real problems in the time I've had it, I had hoped I had lucked out and gotten a version with the more reliable chipset. A few days ago, the Ring did indeed rear its ugly head. I unhooked the cables connecting it to the power brick and the TV, then the following day I reconnected them, and then it was working perfectly.

So I'm wondering, did that truly resolve the problem, or I have I just been given a stay of execution?

 

[SPCTRE]

How many of the Quadrants in the Ring of Light did flash red?

 

[Elim Garak]

How many of the Quadrants in the Ring of Light did flash red?

3.

 

[SPCTRE]

You might also want to identify your chipset - as you have experienced a General Hardware Failure, I suspect you've got one of the Falcon variant.

[Overview of Xbox 360 chipset revisions]

If it is indeed a Falcon, I'm afraid it's likely to show a RRoD again.

(Mind you, I'm not an expert, I'm sure there are folks on this board who are more knowledgeable concerning the Xbox's hardware.)

Edit: Ah, you mentioned you got a 360 Pro - AFAIK there were no Pro console versions released with the Jasper chipset.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

I got a 360 Pro model as a gift in 2008, and it has served me well. Hearing all the horror stories about the Red Ring of Death, I kept it in a cool environment. Not having any real problems in the time I've had it, I had hoped I had lucked out and gotten a version with the more reliable chipset. A few days ago, the Ring did indeed rear its ugly head. I unhooked the cables connecting it to the power brick and the TV, then the following day I reconnected them, and then it was working perfectly.

So I'm wondering, did that truly resolve the problem, or I have I just been given a stay of execution?

Why not try this, call MS and tell them your 360 is intermittently turning off with 3 RROD after a few hours play, then when you leave it off for another few hours its seem to work again for a few hours, but then again the 3 RROD appears and the machine dies.......this will get you a free replacement or repair....now its up to yourself if you do this but its been my experience that once any RROD appears on the 360 it wont be long till its dies from some fault as they are all linked to overheating issue with the 360 itself.

But i certainly would get its repaired now via the free 3 RROD repair/replace instead of waiting in case it fails from another fault other then the 3 RROD which you would have to pay for.

I have had two 360 that failed with the E74 error and 1 RROD and i just told MS that they died from the 3 RROD, they don't check systems and just repaired them, no doubt behind closed door MS are resigned to the fact that all 360s might just fail with some RROD at some point, so they seem to repair and throw out the door as quick as possible.

Anyway whatever you deiced good luck.

 

[TheGodBen]

With the RROD, the problem is likely to recur again within in the next month or two, it could even happen the next time you turn it on. More than likely, the system is overheating and melting solder so that one of the chips is coming loose. Once the solder cools down it will solidify and the chip will be reattached, but extended use will heat it up again until the chip comes loose once more. Eventually, the chip is likely to come away from the board too much and wont reconnect properly once cooled.

Notice all the "likely"s I've used.

Since you're still in the 3-year warranty period, so you can contact Microsoft and tell them about the RROD, they don't bother checking and they'll send you a refurbished model for free. Or you can use it over the next few weeks and see if it happens again.

 

[Elim Garak]

For the free replace/repair, will I need the original receipt? I'm also wondering how the fact that it's a discontinued model (the Slim is the only one currently in production) will affect things.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

You don't need anything but the serial number on the back of your 360, just phone MS and tell them your 360 is suffering from intermittent shut downs with 3 RROD showing after a few hours of play, and that's it, a free repair.

Its also in the lap of the gods on what will happen to your machine, might get a simple repair on your present model motherboard, might get a replacement in the form of a jasper motherboard, but its highly unlikely they will replace it with a new 360 model altogether, but you never know, its all just chance........main thing though is whatever you get at present its going to be free as its covered by the whole 3 RROD thing.

 

[ALF]

More than likely, the system is overheating and melting solder so that one of the chips is coming loose. Once the solder cools down it will solidify and the chip will be reattached, but extended use will heat it up again until the chip comes loose once more. Eventually, the chip is likely to come away from the board too much and wont reconnect properly once cooled.

Notice all the "likely"s I've used.

Thanks, TheGodBen, that and the images posted by Elim Garak are extremely helpful.

I am interested in preventing RROD on my new macheein. I play the hell out of Red Dead and War for Cybertron, it was suggested by others that overheating of the poorly designed Xbox 360 was caused by the motor turning the disc tray.

Since I recently copied both high usage games to the hard drive, can anyone verify that it is considered less wear on the overheating mechanisms playing solely off the hard drive?

 

[Haggis and tatties]

^^^The best thing you can ever do with any 360 when playing games would be to always play them from the HDD, not only will that stop the DVD drive from producing and adding too the heat already inside the 360, but it will also make the 360 quieter and cooler all round.......make it a rule of thumb and aways only play 360 games from the HDD...its the best solution all round.

And anybody who has every opened a 360 will have to wonder in amazement as to how the design of having a heat producing component like a DVD drive sitting right on top of the passive Heat sink for the graphics chip with a paper thin space between, would have ever in a million gazillion years passed the testing stage, never mind that the rest of the motherboard chips have no cooling whatsoever.

As Mr Scott said in STV," I think this console was designed my Monkeys".......OK he would have if he had traveled back in time to 2006, got stranded and decided to live his new life out in here, and bought a 360.

 

[TheGodBen]

Thanks, TheGodBen, that and the images posted by Elim Garak are extremely helpful.

I am interested in preventing RROD on my new macheein. I play the hell out of Red Dead and War for Cybertron, it was suggested by others that overheating of the poorly designed Xbox 360 was caused by the motor turning the disc tray.

Since I recently copied both high usage games to the hard drive, can anyone verify that it is considered less wear on the overheating mechanisms playing solely off the hard drive?

Installing games will help stop it from overheating, but how vital it is depends upon the model you have.

As Haggis and tatties said, the design of the original 360 models were awful, they didn't give themselves enough room inside to dissipate all the heat that was building up. Logically, they wanted to keep the CPU and GPU far away from one another so that their combined heat didn't build up, but that meant putting the GPU underneath the DVD drive where there wasn't much room. As a result, the CPU got the sweet spot near the ventilation fans with a large enough heat-sink on top of it, while the GPU got shoved under the DVD drive with a small heat-sink, and it was about as far away from ventilation as it could get. They put in a plastic wind-tunnel thing designed to suck the air away from GPU and out the back, but it was too narrow to work well.

By the very nature of spinning an object at high speed, the DVD drive will produce a lot of heat, and that creates extra heat near the GPU that it could do without. By installing the games to the HDD, the disc wont spin and there will be less heat around the GPU, which should help prevent the problem. However, the GPU is still stuck in a poorly ventilated area with a small heat-sink, so on the older models that had 90nm GPUs, the problem can still occur.

The Jasper motherboard that was released in 2008 had a smaller 65nm GPU which meant it used less power and therefore produced less heat, so that model was generally considered safe. They could still experience the RROD, but the failure rate was closer to an acceptable level. The new slim model is a complete redesign, the CPU and GPU are now on a single chip, that chip is kept away from the DVD drive, there's a large heat-sink over it, and there's a large fan over the heat-sink blowing air out a large vent. So long as the vent isn't covered, the slim model shouldn't overheat. (But I have all my games installed on the harddrive anyway because it's much, much quieter.)

 

[SPCTRE]

^ All true. It should be noted though that there can be performance related disadvantages to installing certain games to the HDD.

For example, GTAIV tends to slow down for me as new areas of the world map are loaded from the HDD into RAM. Also, loading screens take a tad bit longer in Halo 3.

 

[TheGodBen]

That's right, some games that were released before the NXE update in 2008 used a trick where some textures and map data were transferred from the disc to the HDD (if you had one) at the start of levels so that the game ran smoother. When you play those games after installing them to the HDD, the data goes from one area of the HDD to another area, which is slower than going from the disc to the HDD.

Newer games like RDR should be programmed not to do this as installing games to the harddrive is common now.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Thanks, TheGodBen, that and the images posted by Elim Garak are extremely helpful.

I am interested in preventing RROD on my new macheein. I play the hell out of Red Dead and War for Cybertron, it was suggested by others that overheating of the poorly designed Xbox 360 was caused by the motor turning the disc tray.

Since I recently copied both high usage games to the hard drive, can anyone verify that it is considered less wear on the overheating mechanisms playing solely off the hard drive?

Installing games will help stop it from overheating, but how vital it is depends upon the model you have.

As Haggis and tatties said, the design of the original 360 models were awful, they didn't give themselves enough room inside to dissipate all the heat that was building up. Logically, they wanted to keep the CPU and GPU far away from one another so that their combined heat didn't build up, but that meant putting the GPU underneath the DVD drive where there wasn't much room. As a result, the CPU got the sweet spot near the ventilation fans with a large enough heat-sink on top of it, while the GPU got shoved under the DVD drive with a small heat-sink, and it was about as far away from ventilation as it could get. They put in a plastic wind-tunnel thing designed to suck the air away from GPU and out the back, but it was too narrow to work well.

By the very nature of spinning an object at high speed, the DVD drive will produce a lot of heat, and that creates extra heat near the GPU that it could do without. By installing the games to the HDD, the disc wont spin and there will be less heat around the GPU, which should help prevent the problem. However, the GPU is still stuck in a poorly ventilated area with a small heat-sink, so on the older models that had 90nm GPUs, the problem can still occur.

The Jasper motherboard that was released in 2008 had a smaller 65nm GPU which meant it used less power and therefore produced less heat, so that model was generally considered safe. They could still experience the RROD, but the failure rate was closer to an acceptable level. The new slim model is a complete redesign, the CPU and GPU are now on a single chip, that chip is kept away from the DVD drive, there's a large heat-sink over it, and there's a large fan over the heat-sink blowing air out a large vent. So long as the vent isn't covered, the slim model shouldn't overheat. (But I have all my games installed on the harddrive anyway because it's much, much quieter.)

Spot on, MS also tried in vain as far back a late 2006 to fix the issue by adding a new Heatsink pipe that traveled between the CPU and GPU Heatsinks, to all 360s being sent in for RROD repairs, but this still was not enough to stop the dreaded RROD from overheating, the jasper and the ability to install games have went some way to giving us a 360 that reaches some form of reliability.

So its no wonder MS are trying to increase the life span of the present 360 as well as re-branding it to get away from the dreaded RROD that's hanging round the 360s neck....i certainly would not be in any hurry to launch a new console until i was sure the whole RROD thing was just a faded memory for potential future Xbox customers.

 

[Base_Delta_Zero]

I've also found that running the system on its side prevents disc problems and propping it up on a custom rack (kind of like the Micro-Machines stands) to allow for all possible vents to get air flow, in addition to using the HDD when playing games will really extend your system life.

Common sense stuff like keeping it out of direct sunlight, not putting it in an enclosed entertainment center or too close to the floor where it has to deal with excessive dust/pet hair/etc. are also helpful.

I used to run my My Halo 3 edition box upright in an entertainment center and was having all kinds of disc and overheat/game lock-up problems. Ended up having to switch out the dvd drive, which was a huge pain in the balls.

Started following the above tips with that box (now over 3 years old) and a newer Elite (about a year) and haven't had any further problems with either.

I'm going to definitely wait on MS's next-gen to see if they repeat the RROD brainfart design issues.