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WWII Japanese carrier/sub located

Ar-Pharazon

Ar-Pharazon

Admiral
Admiral
The I400, one of Japan's carrier/subs has been located near Oahu, much less deep than previously thought.

Story

This is one of those military machines, that if the Axis had many more of them, we might be speaking German and/or Japanese right now.

400 feet long, capable of massive range and holding 3 folding-wing seaplanes, but there were only 3 ever built.

This one was captured by the U.S. but scuttled to keep it out of Soviet hands.
 
^ That was one if the plans, at least, not to mention the west coast of the U.S. as a target.

If they got the canal, then targeted our west coast shipyards and aviation factories, we could have gotten a little thin in the PTO.

Though almost certainly all three of the class might have been involved.
 
It's quite a boat. Seeing them with folks on board really brings out the scale of the things for the era. Here is a short clip of them being scuttled.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeE-eAVQuEA[/yt]
 
Ar-Pharazon said:
^ That was one if the plans, at least, not to mention the west coast of the U.S. as a target.

If they got the canal, then targeted our west coast shipyards and aviation factories, we could have gotten a little thin in the PTO.

Though almost certainly all three of the class might have been involved.
Click to expand...

Uhm.. that thing could carry 3 planes which in turn could carry one 1800 pound bomb each (going by the linked article). I sincerely doubt that they could do any noticeable damage if they got within striking range of any vital target at all.

It's the same dumb technocratic wishlisting that Hitler was famous for.. one megalomanical prject after the other with zero tactical or strategic impact but devouring vital ressources.

Additionally subs are quite fragile.. it doesn't take much damage to take away their only advantage to vanish under the sea so i guess those planes would be suicide missions because they well can't return to the mother sub because they would be followed.

However it's always nice to read about the stupidity of military design.
 
IDK, nine 1800 pound bombs could've taken out a lock or two, no? I really don't know what those things are made of, or how much damage the structure of each could withstand.

If nothing else, sink a couple ships while they were in the locks and you accomplish the same thing.

As far as suicide missions go, the Japanese were already doing that. Those pilots would have been ready to give their lives to the mission.
 
:lol: I don't know how that escaped me.

Many years ago, I used to watch bad science fiction movies with a group of friends for shit and giggles: we called ourselves Team Atragon. :D
 
iguana_tonante said:
:lol: I don't know how that escaped me.

Many years ago, I used to watch bad science fiction movies with a group of friends for shit and giggles: we called ourselves Team Atragon. :D
Click to expand...
Cool. Friends and I spent many Saturdays with Creature Double Feature. Watch enough of these in memory, claims of bad acting, scripting, and special effects often leveled at movies and TV today, make me certain folks saying so have no idea how low a bar can go, yet still bring enormous entertainment.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m--ayWTBWi0[/yt]
 
Ar-Pharazon said:
IDK, nine 1800 pound bombs could've taken out a lock or two, no? I really don't know what those things are made of, or how much damage the structure of each could withstand.
Click to expand...

Precision bombing didn't work very well back then. They would have been lucky if even one of their bombs hit and exploded.

Hitting the West Coast would have been a miracle since they had blueprints for the Canal and had rehearsed for the operation.

FPAlpha said:
It's the same dumb technocratic wishlisting that Hitler was famous for.. one megalomanical prject after the other with zero tactical or strategic impact but devouring vital ressources.
Click to expand...

And the Japanese had their Yamato-class, which were just lemons.
 
It took some pounding to sink those lemons, though. They are good for shore bombardment. I think there was an Isle class carrier concept that would have kept a big gun or two just in case...


If anything, big guns--or big missiles, might make the super-carrier obsolete now
http://breakingdefense.com/2013/04/countering-china-hypersonic-cruise-missiles-sensors-stealth-and/
http://blekko.com/wiki/Supercavitation?source=672620ff
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/543097/posts
http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2011-05/twilight-uperfluous-carrier

So much for the Apollo-Norm...

Of course, there is the other end of the spectrum
http://www.marinetalk.com/articles-marine-companies/art/Giant-Floating-Base-MCD002114539IN.html

http://asia.etbnews.com/176760/freedom-ships-dreams-floating-city-revived/

I prefer this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment
 
publiusr said:
It took some pounding to sink those lemons, though. They are good for shore bombardment. I think there was an Isle class carrier concept that would have kept a big gun or two just in case...


If anything, big guns--or big missiles, might make the super-carrier obsolete now
http://breakingdefense.com/2013/04/countering-china-hypersonic-cruise-missiles-sensors-stealth-and/
http://blekko.com/wiki/Supercavitation?source=672620ff
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/543097/posts
http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2011-05/twilight-uperfluous-carrier

So much for the Apollo-Norm...

Of course, there is the other end of the spectrum
http://www.marinetalk.com/articles-marine-companies/art/Giant-Floating-Base-MCD002114539IN.html

http://asia.etbnews.com/176760/freedom-ships-dreams-floating-city-revived/

I prefer this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment
Click to expand...

Why do so many of your posts around the board consist of a series of links that get less and less relevant to the actual topic the further down the post they go? Is it some sort of linkspam for these sites or do you just not get how to reply to a thread without sharing a bunch of tangential links to defense and aerospace sites you frequent? Stop it and just have a normal conversation. Sharing one or two links related to the subject matter is fine, but if all you're posting is a bunch of "hey, isn't this kewl!?" tech links everywhere, you're just spamming.
 
Well the links are to show a bit of frustration I have with those who think the battleship dead. The concept of arsenal ship may make the carrier obsolete in turn. Too often we have a fighter jock mentality--and my links just go to show that things can come back around...
 
Ar-Pharazon said:
This is one of those military machines, that if the Axis had many more of them, we might be speaking German and/or Japanese right now.
Click to expand...

Japan had many war aims that can be fairly seen as irrational, but they were never so delusional as to think their island nation of 70 million could take over a huge country of 130 million on the other side of the world. While at the same time controlling China, which was the Imperial Japanese Army's overriding goal in life.

As to the vessels themselves, like all the big WW1-WW2 submarine cruiser ideas, they were dead-end experiments. Too slow to run, too big to dive quickly, too un-maneuverable to evade, too vulnerable to fight on the surface, they would be a destroyer skipper's dream target.

publiusr said:
Well the links are to show a bit of frustration I have with those who think the battleship dead. The concept of arsenal ship may make the carrier obsolete in turn. Too often we have a fighter jock mentality--and my links just go to show that things can come back around...
Click to expand...

The battleship was a weapon system optimized to fight fleet battles with other battleships a hundred years ago. That world is long gone.
 
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