Writing for the actors - the collaboration process

[commodore64]

I've been rewatching Blake's 7 and saw an interview with Paul Darrow. Great interview. In it, he spoke of writers and actors working together to make each episode. For example, he indicated Terry Nation (the creator of Blake's 7) used to write a line thinking Paul (Avon) could really deliver it or to challenge him. In other words, the process was co-creative -- each part owning it.

I've also heard that some television series, like Farscape and Stargate, had a lot of give and take. A friend of mine, Angie (from this board) indicated Ben would give feedback and they might change lines or let the actors improvise on behalf of their characters.

One of the things I've always been worried about is how removed the Star Trek Enterprise writers were from the daily workings. None of the writers were on the set during shooting. And a friend of my husband's indicated, as a graphic artist, indicated this was a huge problem with Voyager.

So, my question is -- do you think the writing and acting teams had good synergy? Do you think the writers not showing up for the episode hurt the series or the episode itself?

My opinion? I think Enterprise suffered due to lack of collaboration between writers and actors. I find it odd that people had to call Berman to make specific decisions. Worse, I only heard that Robbie McNeil (director of Twilight) made a decision based on writing, acting and his own thoughts. Out of all the episodes, we only heard about that. And this is despite Jolene Blalock raising concerns as well as some other actors about events in the series.

Your thoughts?

 

[JoeZhang]

The acting on enterprise always seem to be a clue that all was not well. Scott Bakula is, from his previous shows, clearly an actor with a good range - on Enterprise, his only expression was of a man who was suffering from constipation - that's always a sign that the actors aren't happy.

 

[JiNX-01]

Well, I do know that Connor has said that he had access to the writers (I presume the others did too) because he would go to them when he felt they were giving Trip short shrift.

Case in point: In an early episode script they had Trip and his engineering team betting each day how far the ship would travel that day and Trip had been wrong every day for weeks.
Connor went to the writers and asked them if they wanted Trip to be a leader. Did they want him to be competent? They said yes, of course. He pointed out that Trip could hardly command respect as an officer and as chief engineer if he can't do the simple calculation of how far Enterprise would go at a certain speed.
(I think it might have been Cold Front, because I recall Trip saying something to Daniels about the betting and asking if Daniels can give him an advantage, which might be the way they recast the scene.)

 

[number6]

That's true. Also the writers were in a different building away from the soundstage. It is not common for writers to visit the set. They are certainly allowed, but they are there to write. The actors on the series always had access to the writers, especially the principal actors.

The OP is trying to make a case for the writers being out of touch by using a flawed comparison. That simply isn't the case.

 

[PamelaJaye]

Don't writers on other shows visit the sets at least once per any episode they have written? That was always my perception (though not necessarily for Trek. I remember something about how the actors wouldn't recognize the writers if they saw them)

On Grey's there was at least one occasion where the writer was on the set so late at night that he had to play the MRI tech, since they'd forgotten they'd need an extra for that.

Of course the writers "live" elsewhere on the lot, but I did believe they did check in from time to time (on other shows)

 

[number6]

Depends on the schedule and how many writers there are and what the visitation policy is. Of course the writers can tour the sets, so they can work out where the characters are and how they get to where they go and have a general lay of the land. Mostly the writers are there to write. It seems more likely that the OP was trying to imply that the writing on ENT wasn't up to snuff because they weren't allowed on set. That's simply not true.

The writing was derivative mostly because of network interference, who wanted "familiar" storylines, because they feared that people wouldn't realise they were watching Star Trek, because it wasn't in the title. With the kinds of shows UPN had on the air on the time, it is no wonder they had a limited view of the intelligence of their audience.

 

[Kegek]

Ben Browder is a special case, as he actually wrote some Farscape episodes as well. But often, in-between the writers and the actors vis-a-vis communication lies the director. A good example is from Andromeda, "Angel Dark, Demon Bright", where Trance convinces Tyr not to defect to the Nietzscheans. Hewitt Wolfe had written this scene as her convincing him; the director, Allan Kroeker, chose to interpret it as her using her mind powers on him, and although Hewitt Wolfe's intervention got rid of a weird voice effect to accentuate this point, that is how the scene was initially played.

 

[commodore64]

Ben Browser wrote an episode. (One I believe -- the Don Quixote twisted one where they were playing a "game," although the name escapes me.) I think all the actors of Star Trek have range and acting talents -- why not let them use it?

I mean, here's a great example -- Connor in the outakes says at least three times the words are hard to say ... and it's not technobabble. Why not give the actors the flexibility to give the same connotation using words they think their character would use?

In most productions I've ever heard of, which (fair enough) is a small sampling, the writers/actors/directors are all working collaboratively. Someone says "this isn't working" and then possibly makes suggestions. The writer could rewrite a few lines. Or the director introduces some ideas based on his/her own interpretation of the script.

And the dude who worked on 3D modeling (my hub's friend) indicated Star Trek was really weirdly rare.

 

[gblews]

commodore64 said:
So, my question is -- do you think the writing and acting teams had good synergy? Do you think the writers not showing up for the episode hurt the series or the episode itself?

How do you know the writers weren't on the set during various times while shooting was going on? Where did you get this information? Cite please.

I would guess that the ENT staff was on the set about as much as most other staffs are. If you think otherwise, please explain why and upon what you are basing your opinion.

As for whether or not it hurt the show (the writers supposed lack of presence during shoots), well I suspect that sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. I'm sure that in some cases all the actors had good story ideas and ideas about their characters. But just because an actor makes a suggestion about their character, doesn't necessarily make it a good suggestion.

On the one hand, I'm glad they didn't take all of Jolene's suggestions into account. But on the other hand, If they'd listened to her (and the rest of the cast), TaTV might have been a decent episode.

 

[JiNX-01]

gblews said:
On the one hand, I'm glad they didn't take all of Jolene's suggestions into account. But on the other hand, If they'd listened to her (and the rest of the cast), TaTV might have been a decent episode.

Uh, I wasn't hanging out much around here for much of ENT's first run. What were Jolene's suggestions?

 

[commodore64]

gblews said:
How do you know the writers weren't on the set during various times while shooting was going on? Where did you get this information? Cite please.

Sure, pick up a copy nearly any copy of the Trek magazine and read through it. Actors give anecdotal information about having to call Berman to change the script.

Sussman, second hand, explained he rarely saw the actors.

And the cite I quoted from my husband's friend who worked with Star Trek.

Those are all cites.

I would guess that the ENT staff was on the set about as much as most other staffs are. If you think otherwise, please explain why and upon what you are basing your opinion.

I did. I don't think I can any more strongly -- other writers, actors, directors and graphics people. More over, reading the Star Trek magazine reading the actor's thoughts. And the Day in the Life magazine article from John Billingsley.

As for whether or not it hurt the show (the writers supposed lack of presence during shoots), well I suspect that sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. I'm sure that in some cases all the actors had good story ideas and ideas about their characters. But just because an actor makes a suggestion about their character, doesn't necessarily make it a good suggestion.

I think my point was more -- it couldn't reach suggestion stage b/c of the bureaucracy.

After seeing the actors' suggestions the directors took, I think they had excellent suggestions! Bakula recommended they use the cell ship, recommended some tweaks to Twilight, etc. Jolene, in the same article you indicate later in your post, made some specific complaints about lots of stuff -- T'Pol as a Vulcan, who didn't make sense of T'Pol to be interested in, the boredom she felt about a "relationship" on Star Trek and more.

On the one hand, I'm glad they didn't take all of Jolene's suggestions into account. But on the other hand, If they'd listened to her (and the rest of the cast), TaTV might have been a decent episode.

You seem to have forgotten the other sources I cited to you, just recently (like today and yesterday, which you commented on), in another thread. She indicated upset with TATV, but indicated equal more upset with continuity errors and not being listened to in the same article with the apparent "disgust" she felt for TATV. Let me know if you need to me to cite more examples. I'd be happy to.

 

[Scatter]

i thought it was pretty common knowledge that is was fairly taboo for writers to visit the (modern?) trek sets during shooting...

 

[Kegek]

commodore64 said:
Ben Browser wrote an episode. (One I believe -- the Don Quixote twisted one where they were playing a "game," although the name escapes me.)

"John Quixote". IIRC, he also wrote the episode where Talyn is swallowed by a budong in S3. So that's two at least.

As far as the writers being on the set... the DS9 Companion, when it mentions cases of the writers showing up to watch filming, notes how atyptical is was.

 

[gblews]

commodore64 said:
Sure, pick up a copy nearly any copy of the Trek magazine and read through it. Actors give anecdotal information about having to call Berman to change the script.

I've read just about every public utterance and printed word about ENT, especially in it's last two seasons, nothing I read indicated that the writers were any less present on the set than any other T.V. writing staff. What the articles I read said, and this may be the source of your confusion, was that Trek scripts are written in stone. On other shows, the actors are allowed to change dialogue (some, at least) on the fly without the producer's approval. That was a no-no on Trek. So iin order to get dialogue changed, the producers had to be asked. Of course they weren't always on the set, no staffs are, but then not all the other staffs have to be consulted for a one word change in dialogue.

I did. I don't think I can any more strongly -- other writers, actors, directors and graphics people. More over, reading the Star Trek magazine reading the actor's thoughts. And the Day in the Life magazine article from John Billingsley.

I read the article and I don't think it said anything about the writers being present on the set significantly less often than any other shows he's been on. I've also read other articles with Billingsley and he's never mentioned it as significant, or a problem.

As for whether or not it hurt the show (the writers supposed lack of presence during shoots), well I suspect that sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. I'm sure that in some cases all the actors had good story ideas and ideas about their characters. But just because an actor makes a suggestion about their character, doesn't necessarily make it a good suggestion.

I think my point was more -- it couldn't reach suggestion stage b/c of the bureaucracy.

After seeing the actors' suggestions the directors took, I think they had excellent suggestions! Bakula recommended they use the cell ship, recommended some tweaks to Twilight, etc. Jolene, in the same article you indicate later in your post, made some specific complaints about lots of stuff -- T'Pol as a Vulcan, who didn't make sense of T'Pol to be interested in, the boredom she felt about a "relationship" on Star Trek and more.

Yeah, thats one of the things I'm glad they didn't listen to her about. Well that and her wanting T'Pol to be more Spock-like. With respect to T'Pol, the Beebs were pretty much on track. I just wish they'd let Manny have her before season 4.

You seem to have forgotten the other sources I cited to you, just recently (like today and yesterday, which you commented on), in another thread. She indicated upset with TATV, but indicated equal more upset with continuity errors and not being listened to in the same article with the apparent "disgust" she felt for TATV. Let me know if you need to me to cite more examples. I'd be happy to.

Well, you cited the Billingsley article and I disagree with what you thought you read, but if you want to post the part where he complains about the writers not being present on the set, I'll read it. But the hearsay from your husband's friend, I'll just take as hearsay.

Yes, I know Jolene complained about the writers not taking her suggestions, but that happens on all TV shows. ENT was no different. Some suggestions were taken, like the meeting Scott had with the producers before season 3 about some much needed improvement of "Archer", which I think worked out well in season 3. Although as I remember reading, Scott had it in his contract that he had some say about his character. Unfortunately, the wheels came off again with regard to "Archer" in season 4, which I think had more to do with Scott, but thats grist for another thread.

 

[gblews]

JiNX-01 said:

gblews said:
On the one hand, I'm glad they didn't take all of Jolene's suggestions into account. But on the other hand, If they'd listened to her (and the rest of the cast), TaTV might have been a decent episode.

Uh, I wasn't hanging out much around here for much of ENT's first run. What were Jolene's suggestions?

Might be easier and more accurate, if you did a search through Trek Today.