Wrath of Kahn...

[2 of 10]

Just finished watching "Wrath of Kahn" and over the past 30 years I have forgotten just how great of a film it was. I was espically impressed with the part of Saavik played by Kristie Alley, I thought she did a fine job in her role. Does anyone know why in Trek 4 and 5 the part of Saavik was played by Robin Curtis and did not turn into a reoccurring role for Kristie Alley.

 

[MasuPu'a]

Supposedly there was some issue regarding the salary of Kristie Alley, the sum requested by Alley and her agent was way too large and the people in charge of SfS and VH couldn't pay her.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Does anyone know why in Trek 4 and 5 the part of Saavik was played by Robin Curtis and did not turn into a reoccurring role for Kristie Alley.

Robin Curtis did 3 and 4, not 5.

Contractually, Paramount had to make an offer to Kirstie Alley's agent. According to an anecdote told by Bjo Trimble at a convention, not long after ST III was underway, Paramount's offer was less than ST II, arguing that sequels "traditionally made less money". The agent made a deliberately-inflated counter offer (as is usual in Hollywood), but Paramount never made the anticipated counter-counter offer.

It seems likely that Paramount (and ST III director, Leonard Nimoy) had taken the opportunity to reimagine and recast the character of Saavik. Alley ended up winning a starring role in a stage play ("A Cat on a Hot Tin Roof", IIRC), which was a very satisfying career move for a young actress with only one professional movie credit on her CV.

Incidentally, Alley played Saavik one more time: in a radio play by Walter Koenig, written to be performed live (with the regular cast minus Nimoy, and with Mark Lenard as a guest alien) at the LA ST convention "Ultimate Fantasy", not long after ST II. The convention was a bizarrely underbooked flop, and was nicknamed "The Con of Wrath" by fans when the organisers skipped town.

 

[22 Stars]

Another note, growing up Alley was a Trek fan, and always liked Spock and would often say she wanted to play Spock's daughter. She did a great job in the closest to that role imagined!

 

[Therin of Andor]

Another note, growing up Alley was a Trek fan, and always liked Spock and would often say she wanted to play Spock's daughter. She did a great job in the closest to that role imagined!

Yep. Kirstie Alley's (hilarious) book, "How to Lose Your Ass and Regain Your Life", has a page discussing the ST II audition process, and mentions that the only reason she was so tiny in the waist at final casting was that, between auditions, she'd lost her mother in a fatal car crash. Such tragedy marring her first professional acting assignment!

 

[RAMA]

The second time I saw STII was on ABC, and they had added cut footage...I am so happy that I have better ways of watching it now than that old VHS tape I made. Gotta love bluray/DVD.

RAMA

 

[Uxi]

I always wanted Alley to portray Saavik again and play up the half Romulan angle. I think Robin Curtis could have played a fine Vulcan lieutenant and full-Vulcan protege of Spock, but just wasn't the same Saavik from TWOK.

 

[tighr]

Robin Curtis' character should have been a completely different Vulcan. They should have renamed her (like they did in Undiscovered Country; that was initially supposed to be Saavik).

 

[Captrek]

It seems likely that Paramount (and ST III director, Leonard Nimoy) had taken the opportunity to reimagine and recast the character of Saavik.

Would that they had renamed her as well.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Would that they had renamed her as well.

Only the pon farr scenes wouldn't have worked as well with a brand new character who would have seemingly had no backstory with Spock. Saavik's unease before (and after) assisting her former mentor go through the equivalent of puberty was an important part of the movie.

 

[Jerikka Dawn]

It's a shame we didn't see more of Kirstie Alley as Saavik. I loved her in TWOK. I especially loved the part in the expanded cut where Kirk was trying to get Khan to follow him into the nebula, and Saavik asked Kirk what happens if Khan fails to follow them ... the way she said it was a "ok, Admiral, you think you're so smart" kinda half Vulcan/half smartass way, but at the same time, trying to learn from him.

Edit to add: I just recently watched this expanded/director's cut and in my opinion, it's much, much better than the normal cut.

 

[The Dominion]

Robin Curtis' character should have been a completely different Vulcan. They should have renamed her (like they did in Undiscovered Country; that was initially supposed to be Saavik).

Man, if that had been Saavik in TUC it would have been an epic arc.

 

[JediKnightButler]

Robin Curtis' character should have been a completely different Vulcan. They should have renamed her (like they did in Undiscovered Country; that was initially supposed to be Saavik).

Man, if that had been Saavik in TUC it would have been an epic arc.

Yeah, it would have been nice to see the character with her having been absent from the previous two movies but I couldn't really see her as being involved in the assassination plot against the Klingons. It would unnecessarily sully the reputation of a character that we had been built up to like IMHO, plus what would her motivation have been? David's death? That would've been kind of redundant given that that was Kirk's main struggle with the peace process. Maybe it might have worked better if she had initially been part of the plot but decided to back out of it. How would participation in an assassination plot be considered a "logical" act to commit for Saavik? Come to think of it, it actually was not really even made clear why Valeris decided to be part of the plot either.

 

[tighr]

How would participation in an assassination plot be considered a "logical" act to commit for Saavik? Come to think of it, it actually was not really even made clear why Valeris decided to be part of the plot either.

Actually, it was. Explicitly.

She claimed that she was working toward saving Starfleet, since peace with the Klingons would mean the end of Starfleet.

Although she "logically" came to that conclusion, it was still (as we know) the incorrect conclusion.

 

[A Little Otter]

Robin Curtis' character should have been a completely different Vulcan. They should have renamed her (like they did in Undiscovered Country; that was initially supposed to be Saavik).

It wouldn't have made sense in the story to have another female Vulcan officer working around the Genesis planet. It's not uncommon for actors to be replaced from one movie to another (or even within a TV series) if the original actor is not available for some reason. This is often disconcerting for the audience, though, when the performances are so different, as is the case with Saavik.

I think it would've been very powerful if Valeris had actually been Saavik, as Nick Meyer originally wanted, but supposedly Gene Roddenberry didn't want that character to become a villain. Kim Catrall's performance as Valeris is rather annoying.

 

[JediKnightButler]

How would participation in an assassination plot be considered a "logical" act to commit for Saavik? Come to think of it, it actually was not really even made clear why Valeris decided to be part of the plot either.

Actually, it was. Explicitly.

She claimed that she was working toward saving Starfleet, since peace with the Klingons would mean the end of Starfleet.

Although she "logically" came to that conclusion, it was still (as we know) the incorrect conclusion.

That explanation never really made sense to me given that- as we know- Starfleet was alive and thriving during the time of TNG, DS9, VOY- long after peace was made with the Klingons. I realize, of course, that the characters in the movie didn't have the hindsight we the viewers had but shouldn't it have been obvious that Starfleet wasn't simply going to cease to exist once peace was made between Starfleet and the Klingons? Ah well. I know it was a movie but still............

 

[Kamdan]

I wish Kim Cattrall had been Saavik from Star Trek II until IV with her character taking Valeris' place, as the history between her and Spock was obviously the same and her hatred of Klingons would have tied into the death of David Marcus. Also, was anyone ever annoyed that Kirstie Alley's eyebrows were not arched? Was that a personal issue for her? Maybe it would have worked if she was half-human, like Spock.

 

[Therin of Andor]

That explanation never really made sense to me

The irony of the plot is that human Cartwright, Vulcan Valeris, Romulan Nanclus and Klingon Chang were living proof that the four races could work together on a common project. They were actually demonstrating that peace could be a reality; they just didn't notice.

was anyone ever annoyed that Kirstie Alley's eyebrows were not arched? Was that a personal issue for her? Maybe it would have worked if she was half-human, like Spock.

Unfortunately, the script indicates that some people working on ST II didn't know what a Romulan was, certainly not that Romulans were physically identical to Vulcans. In an early stage direction, the script actually mentions Saavik's "fair complexion", due to her mixed Romulan/Vulcan heritage. Saavik was one of the only Vulcans not to be given the special LN1 pancake treatment developed for Nimoy way back in TOS.

Kirstie Alley's natural eyebrows have a rather unusual arch to them, so the makeup designer, Werner Keppler, didn't feel the need to fuss with them, particularly since the script suggested she not look like a regular Vulcan.

This was the same makeup guy who misunderstood, at first, Nick Meyer's request for green blood on Spock's hands during the death scene. At first, Keppler simply put green foundation makeup on Nimoy's exposed skin for that scene.

 

[Uxi]

I wish Kim Cattrall had been Saavik from Star Trek II until IV with her character taking Valeris' place, as the history between her and Spock was obviously the same and her hatred of Klingons would have tied into the death of David Marcus.

Right, except I always wanted it be Kirstie Alley.

 

[Kamdan]

I guess I find it easier to see Cattrall in the role than Alley. I see the character she plays in Star Trek IV and yes I have seen her in Porky's. In Star Trek II, all I see is Kirstie Alley with pointed ears (mostly because of the lack of arched eyebrows). They both had “quoting regulations” scenes and I thought Cattrall pulled it off better with her manner and expressions, while Alley seemed like she was reading it off a card.