Would the Prime directive even matter in this situation?

[Acenos]

A situation where a federation ship notices a planet with a pre-warp civilization either coming under attack or being used to test weapons by a spacefaring civilization. Said spacefaring power either being indifferent to technologically inferior beings or seek pleasure in watching them suffer as a morbid form of entertainment to them. Treating the planet like some kind of toy or personal punching bag if it involves venting frustration. like using a magnifying glass to fry ants

For this example, let's say that Sigma Iota II is being tormented by some other extraterrestrial power. By chance, a federation ship passes by and manage to get the "newsreels" from the planet that consist of stock footage from disaster scenes from the following movies:

Deluge:

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San Francisco:

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Things to Come:

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DIE YOU FUCKING GANSTERS!!!

The order they would go in would be the "Things to Come" air raid sequence going first to represent orbital bombardment. The Earthquake sequences from both "San Francisco" and "Deluge" would come next, and finally the tsunami from "Deluge". This representing the alien power either testing or deliberately deploying extremely cataclysmic weapons onto the helpless Iotians. Triggering various natural disasters and threatening the stability of the planet. The alien side would also be getting the newsreels they react with the same level of amusement Nero must have had when he fiddled with his harp as Rome burned.

At first, they would try to reason out with the aliens, but in this case, they refuse to stop and even deride the idea of the prime directive. Comparing pre warp civilizations to bugs that deserve to be squashed and exterminated. Said aliens also telling the fed ship to "Fuck off or die!". At that point, they (federation ship's crew) will have to deal with this situation with their own hands.

Would the prime directive even matter if the federation hears about extraterrestrial powers doing all sorts of cruel and unusual things to pre-warp societies and civilizations?

 

[at Quark's]

Given that the goal of the prime directive is to 'protect' pre-warp civilizations from the knowledge that there are other species and civilizations out there, perhaps the answer would depend upon whether the alien attackers are actually seen by the public ? If so, then the Federation perhaps might also visibly intervene on the surface (damage has already been done). If not (i.e. the inhabitants only experience unexplainable 'natural' disasters, and a lot of them), it might be more difficult.

But, I don't think the PD would prohibit the Federation from establishing a perimeter guard zone somewhere around the planet or solar system, denying said hostiles access to the planet from now on (as long as they aren't seen themselves, assuming the pestered population isn't nearing warp drive level knowledge itself), though of course there could be other objections to that. So regardless of what the PD says, it would probably be quite possible for the Feds to protect that pre-warp civilization.

 

[Acenos]

so

Given that the goal of the prime directive is to 'protect' pre-warp civilizations from the knowledge that there are other species and civilizations out there, perhaps the answer would depend upon whether the alien attackers are actually seen by the public ? If so, then the Federation perhaps might also visibly intervene on the surface (damage has already been done). If not (i.e. the inhabitants only experience unexplainable 'natural' disasters, and a lot of them), it might be more difficult.

But, I don't think the PD would prohibit the Federation from establishing a perimeter guard zone somewhere around the planet or solar system, denying said hostiles access to the planet from now on (as long as they aren't seen themselves, assuming the pestered population isn't nearing warp drive level knowledge itself), though of course there could be other objections to that. So regardless of what the PD says, it would probably be quite possible for the Feds to protect that pre-warp civilization.

what if the attackers came down and eithers goes on a killing spree or enslaves whoever survives their attacks?

Also, how about if the inhabitants already saw the very real spaceship bombing the shit out of their cities?

 

[at Quark's]

I'd say that in that case they have been exposed already and the Federation would be free to intervene openly.

But that's just my interpretation, I don't know for sure how the PD actually applies in such a specific situation.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The prime directive is about protecting the natural development of a culture, but it's also about stopping cowboy Captains from over committing Federation aid, or starting a war with a bad ass that can take the fight right back to Earth.

The Federation is not bound by the Prime Directive, just Star fleet.

The Federation Council can redefine a situation that will allow Star Fleet to start a conversation with a world that Starfleet should stay the hell away from.

Star Fleet doesn't have to follow illegal orders.

Checks and Balances.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The Federation is not bound by the Prime Directive, just Star fleet.

Do we ever get in universe canon stating that "The Federation" Government isn't bound by the Prime Directive and ONLY StarFleet?

Or can any regular ole civilian / citizen from within the UFP come in and interfere nilly willy?

Can Federation Government officials do whatever the eff they want and just interfere?

 

[Guy Gardener]

General order one.

All the other general orders seem Star Fleet specific except general order 7.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet_General_Orders_and_Regulations#General_Orders

 

[Brennyren]

As interference is already taking place (in the form of the marauding aliens), I'd say that the PD no longer applies. No way is "getting blown to hell by jerkass aliens" part of a planet's natural development. That said, I'm sure the captain on the scene would be expected to keep obvious interference to a minimum, if that's an option.

IMO, a Federation that would let a pre-warp civilization be devastated or destroyed under such circumstances, sooner than "interfere," has given up any claim to being humanitarian (or whatever the proper term is when you're discussing "humanitarians" who are not, in fact, human).

 

[at Quark's]

Starfleet being the Federation's foremost exploration (and if need be, military) instrument, I would find it odd if the PD wasn't a kind of general guiding principle for all official organs of the Federation. Perhaps not as stringently binding or enforced as it is in Starfleet, but I would be very surprised if the Federation council would merrily allow a needless introduction of the Federation to a bronze age society, only without involving Starfleet.

However, private UFP citizens perhaps might have no such limitations.

 

[Orphalesion]

As interference is already taking place (in the form of the marauding aliens), I'd say that the PD no longer applies. No way is "getting blown to hell by jerkass aliens" part of a planet's natural development. That said, I'm sure the captain on the scene would be expected to keep obvious interference to a minimum, if that's an option.

IMO, a Federation that would let a pre-warp civilization be devastated or destroyed under such circumstances, sooner than "interfere," has given up any claim to being humanitarian (or whatever the proper term is when you're discussing "humanitarians" who are not, in fact, human).

I mean it wasn't a "Pre-Warp Civilizsation" but didn't the Federation pretty much stand by and do nothing except grumble when the Cardassians occupied Bajor? And from what Worf said in DS9 the Klingons (even as they are allied with the Federation) aren't gentle to planets they conquer either.

 

[Guy Gardener]

As interference is already taking place (in the form of the marauding aliens), I'd say that the PD no longer applies. No way is "getting blown to hell by jerkass aliens" part of a planet's natural development. That said, I'm sure the captain on the scene would be expected to keep obvious interference to a minimum, if that's an option.

IMO, a Federation that would let a pre-warp civilization be devastated or destroyed under such circumstances, sooner than "interfere," has given up any claim to being humanitarian (or whatever the proper term is when you're discussing "humanitarians" who are not, in fact, human).

The Federation Council may decide to intervene.

The Captain of a Nova Class science vessel probably shouldn't.

Besides, by the time a Federation fleet shows up, that prewarp civilization may have already surrendered to the marauders, who are now the legal rulers of that world and will probably not be interested in Star Fleets "help".

The natural course of some civilizations is to be eaten by the strong, and other cultures cannot grow and thrive without eating their neighbours.

PS

Hawaii is rightfully a monarchy and will be again!!!

 

[Acenos]

The prime directive is about protecting the natural development of a culture, but it's also about stopping cowboy Captains from over committing Federation aid, or starting a war with a bad ass that can take the fight right back to Earth.

Is it "natural" if said primitive culture gets nuked by aliens?

Imagine a pre warp society at early 21st Century level of development who are at the stage where they begin to believe in the existence of extraterrestrial life beyond theirs and then make first contact with said alien aggressor's/imperialists. Imagine that giving them a negative view on extraterrestrial life. After said visitors giving this response to the fledging civilization's attempts to greet them:

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If i were to encounter a primitive civilization a planet, I'd rather commit genocide rather than pointlessly observing unimportant insignificant vermin.

 

[Push The Button]

Kirk would intervene, prime directive violation or not.

First season TNG Picard wouldn’t.

 

[The Wormhole]

Do we ever get in universe canon stating that "The Federation" Government isn't bound by the Prime Directive and ONLY StarFleet?

Or can any regular ole civilian / citizen from within the UFP come in and interfere nilly willy?

Can Federation Government officials do whatever the eff they want and just interfere?

According to TNG Angel One, Federation civilians are not required to follow the Prime Directive. It does appear to be strictly a Starfleet policy, though the guys in the gray jumpsuits we see frequently on TNG seem to follow it as well.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Is it "natural" if said primitive culture gets nuked by aliens?

Imagine a pre warp society at early 21st Century level of development who are at the stage where they begin to believe in the existence of extraterrestrial life beyond theirs and then make first contact with said alien aggressor's/imperialists. Imagine that giving them a negative view on extraterrestrial life. After said visitors giving this response to the fledging civilization's attempts to greet them:

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If i were to encounter a primitive civilization a planet, I'd rather commit genocide rather than pointlessly observing unimportant insignificant vermin.

So there's a mildly advanced set of aliens, and the only way that their culture will not flounder and die, is if they strip mine and enslave their neighbours.

Not every planet is lucky enough to be isolated, away from the assholes of the Galaxy.

It's one or the other, so why chose the weak idiots every time?

Also by picking a fight with oppressors like this, two things might happen, first is you push them off, then they just try to invade, enslave and strip mine a different planet that otherwise would have been safe because the Invaders were occupied in a different direction, or if you chase them back to their homeworld, then you have accidentally invaded and conquered a species taking their land and becoming responsible for them forever after as third class citizens or slaves.

Even if you stay for a hundred years trying to bring civility, the moment you leave, they will be back to their old ways, strip mining their nieghbours by force, and taking slaves.

America in Afghanistan.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

There's a lot of contextual nuances in this question.

In one case they're protecting a prewarp situation from interference, in another case they're interfering in the internal politics of other nations.

It depends which civilization discovered the prewarp planet first and whose territory it falls in.

 

[C.E. Evans]

• Federation saves besieged pre-warp planet from hostile spacefaring civilization.
• Goes to war with hostile spacefaring civilization instead. Many die...

Fuck it. Call in Section 31. They'll make this problem go away very quietly...

 

[Guy Gardener]

There's a lot of contextual nuances in this question.

In one case they're protecting a prewarp situation from interference, in another case they're interfering in the internal politics of other nations.

It depends which civilization discovered the prewarp planet first and whose territory it falls in.

Garfield and Judith Reeves Stevens, in their book Prime Directive, stated that every prewarp planet inside Federation space, is reserved 50 unoccupied planets for expansion, for after they eventually create Warp Drive.

Books are not canon.

50 planets, or 50 M Class planets?

 

[Acenos]

H

So there's a mildly advanced set of aliens, and the only way that their culture will not flounder and die, is if they strip mine and enslave their neighbours.

Not every planet is lucky enough to be isolated, away from the assholes of the Galaxy.

It's one or the other, so why chose the weak idiots every time?

Also by picking a fight with oppressors like this, two things might happen, first is you push them off, then they just try to invade, enslave and strip mine a different planet that otherwise would have been safe because the Invaders were occupied in a different direction, or if you chase them back to their homeworld, then you have accidentally invaded and conquered a species taking their land and becoming responsible for them forever after as third class citizens or slaves.

Even if you stay for a hundred years trying to bring civility, the moment you leave, they will be back to their old ways, strip mining their nieghbours by force, and taking slaves.

America in Afghanistan.

How about if they attempt to strip mine the capital planet of your galactic power? Earth, in this case of the federation

 

[Guy Gardener]

Then they are idiots.

Suicidal idiots.

Suicidal idiots that are blind because they cruised past Saturn and Jupiter.