Woman of the Week #6 - Camila Vallejo

[{ Emilia }]

People wanted social change or in the words of Willy Brandt: "Let's dare more democracy."

And then, that same government crafted the law against radicals in public service which resulted in many people with left-wing ideology barred from working in the job they had prepared for (e.g. teaching). It was a great speech but that's about it.
Being a member of the Communist Party, Camila Vallejo would have been out of luck if she had chosen a career in that sector.

(Sorry for the thread derailment. I really love that sentence by Brandt (also the weird way he says it) but I thought it was somewhat funny for this to show up in a thread about a Chilean Communist. The fact that his government didn't really deliver on that count despite the awesome speech just bugs me, so I couldn't stop myself.)

My point was obviously that compared to the 1950s and 1960s Germany did see a democratization of society, the rise of new social movements, the opening of universities to kids from less affluent families, student participation in university governance, and a civic culture that promotes participation.

And that is what the Chilean student movement is trying to achieve, too.

But you knew that. Citing the Radikalenerlass* while completely ignoring all the achievements of the "generation of 1968" is a bit sad in my opinion and did indeed ignore what I was trying to say.


* which also has to be put into its Cold War context.

 

[Count Zero]

Willy Brandt wasn't part of the 1968 generation, though, so I didn't ignore any of that. In fact, that generation battled against the Social Democratic establishment (it was one half of the maligned grand coalition, after all) or were rejected by it beforehand (like the SDS, the Socialist Student Union, whose members were suddenly barred from a career in the party).
I don't dispute that both Brandt administrations did some good things - they did, especially the policy towards the East, but also a couple of other things. But that sentence - and I'd like to believe that Brandt meant it when he said it - always sounds very empty to me nowadays. They wanted to dare more democracy but they didn't. Yes, society became more socially liberal (but I'd argue that the social-liberal coalitions was a symptom of that liberalisation, not the cause) and more social benefits were introduced or increased but the means of democratic participation basically stayed the same. Things like local referenda were only introduced much later in most states.

Student participation in university governance was something the student movements of the 60s and 70s achieved but it was soon rolled back. Students have no influence on any real governance, even if they have parliaments.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Willy Brandt wasn't part of the 1968 generation, though, so I didn't ignore any of that.

The post you reacted to was about the similarities between the Chilean and the European student movements. Not about Willy Brandt.

I just used his quote because it's catchy but that's it. None of my content was actually about Brandt. Can you please stop derailing this?

I was talking about what the student movement achieved and what its goals were and how that's a bit similar to the current Chilean movement. That's why I cited the '68 generation. They wanted the stuff I listed further up. And some of that can be found in the Chilean student movement.

My comparison was: Both student movements reacted to a paternalistic, authoritarian regime and society that weren't yet completely democratic. Brandt's phrase fits that. I didn't mean to say Brandt was part of the student movement. That would be ridiculous.


ETA: That might've come out harsher than intended. I was just a bit frustrated because we totally seemed to talk about two completely different things. I can see how the Brandt quote distracted you enough to lose sight of what I was trying to say.

 

[JoeZhang]

If you think about it the student protests in Chile aren't that much different in nature from those in Germany, France and Italy in the 1960s and 1970s.

Very good point.

I do like much of the Italian system in theory but it's so severely under-funded. Especially the financial situation of promising young academics is precarious in many cases.

Tell me about it.

For all the faults of the UK system, I'm not having to supply my own paper or work for free like a lot of academics seem to be doing in other places in europe.

 

[IndyJones]

I don't think my (now former) college ever had a student protest. It was a lovely school but most of the student body had no idea what was going on outside of it. I wish the US had more student protests, or protests in general, really. We could use a person like Ms. Vallejo.

What would you like to see the US student population protest?

How about the unfairness of a system that is largely dependent on tuition fees? Many students who aren't well-off end up with huge debts when they finish uni. If they can finance it at all in the first place.

Too true.

My loans, and I finished my first four years of college without any debt, topped out near $250,000.

No worries, I made that decision. But why should Mitt Romney get taxed at 16% (because his income is classified as an investment) while the $15,000 I'm paying on my loans really costs me $20,000 (as my loans aren't deductible) each year.

Why are his investments more in business more worthy of deductions than the investments many Americans have made in themselves?

 

[Count Zero]

Wasn't there a plan to make college loans tax deductible or did that only happen in The West Wing?

 

[IndyJones]

Wasn't there a plan to make college loans tax deductible or did that only happen in The West Wing?

You can deduct a set amount, but only on interest payments not principle. And only if you make below a set income level.

We keep hearing about tax loopholes for the "successful", why am I getting screwed on this one?

 

[Count Zero]

Because, sadly, we aren't living in Aaron Sorkin's fictional universe. I remember now that it's from a West Wing episode - a reaction to what that father in the bar who's taken his daughter on a college tour says to Toby in 20 Hours in America, namely that it should be a little easier to get your daughter through college.

Considering the growing cost of college/university, I'm surprised there isn't more protest potential within the US student population. Maybe that got kinda sucked up in the Occupy movement. Also, from what I've heard, the pressure on students seems to be very high about academic achievements so they don't have much time to do much else, I suppose.

 

[sidious618]

Americans are loathe to protest in general. They're very cowed by what they view as "higher" powers.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I went to college in the late 70s and early 80s, the protests had pretty much died off my then. I remember some sort of demonstration by a leftist group around the time I was a freshman, but that's about it.

 

[RJDiogenes]

We need another rebellious generation to come along. They're way overdue.

 

[1001001]

I went to college in the late 70s and early 80s, the protests had pretty much died off my then. I remember some sort of demonstration by a leftist group around the time I was a freshman, but that's about it.

I was in college in the mid 80's, and there were a lot of protests against Apartheid. Specifically, trying to get the UC to divest from companies doing business with the South African government. We had a "shanty town" in the quad for quite a while.

May have been a California thing, I don't know....

 

[Nerys Myk]

I went to college in the late 70s and early 80s, the protests had pretty much died off my then. I remember some sort of demonstration by a leftist group around the time I was a freshman, but that's about it.

I was in college in the mid 80's, and there were a lot of protests against Apartheid. Specifically, trying to get the UC to divest from companies doing business with the South African government. We had a "shanty town" in the quad for quite a while.

May have been a California thing, I don't know....

I went to college in California, too. It was a CSU not a UC though.

 

[Gov Kodos]

In the 80's there were plenty of protests at my school, UMass. We even had Abbie Hoffman show up at one protest over CIA recruitment on campus.

 

[M'Sharak]

I went to college in the late 70s and early 80s, the protests had pretty much died off my then. I remember some sort of demonstration by a leftist group around the time I was a freshman, but that's about it.

I was in college in the mid 80's, and there were a lot of protests against Apartheid. Specifically, trying to get the UC to divest from companies doing business with the South African government. We had a "shanty town" in the quad for quite a while.

May have been a California thing, I don't know....

I went to college in California, too. It was a CSU not a UC though.

Last time I went was at a CSU, also. It seemed as if there was always some to-do about some issue or other going on, but most never amounted to very much. The one big event I remember happening on-campus was when a mural of Malcolm X was unveiled at the Student Union building. Mural contained some elements which did not sit well with some people, to the extent that someone (faculty member, as I recall) tried to vandalize it; things were polarized for a few days, with vocal protests and counter-protests.

I stepped outside from my student job for a smoke break one day to see a squad of cops in full riot gear marching in and positioning themselves, standing in formation, a short distance from the center of the protest activity. Fortunately, people decided right about then that they didn't really want to find out how much more interesting things could get; protests wound down, and the mural was eventually sandblasted and replaced with one which was less inflammatory.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Was that at SF State? The South Bay isn't quite as "radical".

 

[M'Sharak]

Was that at SF State?

Yup.

"We're gonna go protest something - just give us a minute to figure out what, alright?"

Or:

"Do you think this is a good look for getting arrested, or should I go with something more boho?"

 

[Count Zero]

Some universities have a reputation to uphold it seems.

I just wish these protests had more consequences and/or more substance (that's often a problem, too). A path on our campus is named for one of the leaders of the student protests in the 60s and I like that. But the institution itself is still almost as undemocratic as it was in his day, and that's sad.