Will "Obsession" back story show up in Trek XI?

[TrelaneRetired]

Back a few days ago on the IMDB Star Trek board, there was kind of a fun thread about whether the whole Capt. Garrovick, Starship Farragut, Di-Choronium Cloud Creature story from "Obsession" would receive any play in the new movie.

It might be fun to flesh out that story a little bit, given that it's a "canonized" part of Kirk's pre-5-year-mission backstory. On the other hand, they couldn't spend too much time on it given that Spock wasn't involved.

Just thinking... but then it's fun to just think about the Trek, huh?

 

[seigezunt]

I doubt it. I think it would be best to make a film that requires no reading up or prior knowledge. They are trying to bring this to a general audience, after all. Also, I don't want to revisit a smog monster that Spock tried to block through a grating WITH HIS HANDS.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Seigezunt, I don't think that you'd need to have seen "Obsession" in order to enjoy a story about Kirk on the Farragut, especially that particular situation. In fact, all it would do is make future viewings of "Obsession" seem that much more "impactful."

I think that Trelane has a point, though it's not as much of one as perhaps he thinks. I'm certain that, since this movie is basically a narrative told by "Old Spock," he could certainly relate elements of things that he didn't, PERSONALLY, observe. There's no question but that Spock would have become an expert on the situation with the Tycho Cloud Creature, after all... so it's not hard to imagine him relating the EVENTS of that period. However, it's hard to imagine him relating the ... "emotional impact" of those things except in terms of how the affected Kirk later on.

SO... I doubt we'll see this series of events. I'm not 100% convinced... but I doubt it. I think that the scenario we'll be seeing will be post-Farragut. Probably right before Kirk graduates from Command school and gets appointed as first officer on a small ship (Imagine, for example, a small destroyer-type ship... perhaps based upon the Baton Rouge class... and with the ship called the Alexander. The ship's captain would hold the rank of Commander, Lieutenant Kirk would be the first officer... and the death of the captain would lead to a field-promotion for Kirk, and his actions in that situation would lead to him being put at the top of the "guys you can count on in a crisis" list, and thus one of the guys who gets one of the first 12 "Explorer-refit" Constitution-class starships, expected to go well outside of explored space for extended periods.

 

[RookieBatman]

Cary L. Brown said:
SO... I doubt we'll see this series of events. I'm not 100% convinced... but I doubt it. I think that the scenario we'll be seeing will be post-Farragut. Probably right before Kirk graduates from Command school and gets appointed as first officer on a small ship (Imagine, for example, a small destroyer-type ship... perhaps based upon the Baton Rouge class... and with the ship called the Alexander. The ship's captain would hold the rank of Commander, Lieutenant Kirk would be the first officer... and the death of the captain would lead to a field-promotion for Kirk, and his actions in that situation would lead to him being put at the top of the "guys you can count on in a crisis" list, and thus one of the guys who gets one of the first 12 "Explorer-refit" Constitution-class starships, expected to go well outside of explored space for extended periods.

I don't mean to sound like I'm disagreeing with on every single point, but just to share my own imaginings of what this movie might end up like, I picture it with Kirk in command of such a small such, rather than being the first officer. He might still hold the rank of Commander, but I think we'll probably see him in charge. Just my opinion.

 

[PowderedToastMan]

long long ago (I think May 06 when people were still talking 'academy movie') I suggested that Farragut back story to "Obsession" would make an interesting jumping off point for the new film. Kirk's journey from his perceived failures and loss of his captain and crew of the Farragut to being the youngest captain in Starfleet history is an interesting story.

I am fairly certain that the Farragut was in at least one draft of the script, but I am not sure it is still in it

 

[Cary L. Brown]

RookieBatman said:

Cary L. Brown said:
SO... I doubt we'll see this series of events. I'm not 100% convinced... but I doubt it. I think that the scenario we'll be seeing will be post-Farragut. Probably right before Kirk graduates from Command school and gets appointed as first officer on a small ship (Imagine, for example, a small destroyer-type ship... perhaps based upon the Baton Rouge class... and with the ship called the Alexander. The ship's captain would hold the rank of Commander, Lieutenant Kirk would be the first officer... and the death of the captain would lead to a field-promotion for Kirk, and his actions in that situation would lead to him being put at the top of the "guys you can count on in a crisis" list, and thus one of the guys who gets one of the first 12 "Explorer-refit" Constitution-class starships, expected to go well outside of explored space for extended periods.

I don't mean to sound like I'm disagreeing with on every single point, but just to share my own imaginings of what this movie might end up like, I picture it with Kirk in command of such a small such, rather than being the first officer. He might still hold the rank of Commander, but I think we'll probably see him in charge. Just my opinion.

But nobody is ever put "in charge" without having served as a second-in-command. Not in real life, not in Star Trek. Every officer we see who's a captain served as a first officer at some point. That's where they find out, as the FINAL STEP, if you're really able to be a captain... you get to be an "acting captain" but there's still the safety net of having the REAL captain there to kick your ass out of the chair if you royally screw things up!

So, Kirk would NOT graduate from Command School and be given a command of his own straight away. Not in real life, not in the Trek universe. He'd be a first officer, first.

THEN, as I said, he'd become the commanding officer of a ship. This is kind of what I was getting at... the guy is a new First Officer... a major crisis event happens, and his captain is killed in the process. Suddenly this unproven officer is "in charge" and the fate of not just him and his ship but a lot of OTHER important things rests upon his shoulders.

That's the sort of thing, if you succeed beyond anyone's wildest expectations, that could get you bumped to the top of the promotions list, above officer with more years of experience and who are, at least on paper, "more qualified."

I keep saying it... SOMETHING happened to Kirk before he got the Enterprise, where he basically impressed the hell out of the folks at Starfleet Command. So much so that they were willing to piss off half the command-grade officers in Starfleet and promote a "kid" ahead of all of them to one of the most "plum" assignments available!

I think that this movie is going to show us what that event was.

We'll see in a little over a year, huh?

 

[RookieBatman]

Cary L. Brown said:
I keep saying it... SOMETHING happened to Kirk before he got the Enterprise, where he basically impressed the hell out of the folks at Starfleet Command. So much so that they were willing to piss off half the command-grade officers in Starfleet and promote a "kid" ahead of all of them to one of the most "plum" assignments available!

But has it been stated somewhere that the Enterprise was Kirk's first command? If not, I don't see why this exploit that earned him the Enterprise couldn't have come from an earlier command. Right now, I'm leaning toward Kirk in command of a smaller ship and then he gets the Enterprise at the end of the movie (giving us the promised appearance of Enterprise). There's no definite indication that WNMHGB was Kirk's first mission on the Ent, so there could still be room for another movie that takes place before the show.
But, your version is probably second on my list of possible eras.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

RookieBatman said:

Cary L. Brown said:I keep saying it... SOMETHING happened to Kirk before he got the Enterprise, where he basically impressed the hell out of the folks at Starfleet Command. So much so that they were willing to piss off half the command-grade officers in Starfleet and promote a "kid" ahead of all of them to one of the most "plum" assignments available!

But has it been stated somewhere that the Enterprise was Kirk's first command? If not, I don't see why this exploit that earned him the Enterprise couldn't have come from an earlier command. Right now, I'm leaning toward Kirk in command of a smaller ship and then he gets the Enterprise at the end of the movie (giving us the promised appearance of Enterprise). There's no definite indication that WNMHGB was Kirk's first mission on the Ent, so there could still be room for another movie that takes place before the show.
But, your version is probably second on my list of possible eras.

Rookie, I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about.

I'm saying that Kirk was first officer someplace else, then commanding officer someplace else, THEN got the Enterprise.

What is it about how I'm saying this that's confusing you?

I proposed this sequence, starting after Kirk graduates from the Command Course (which he attended after having served on both the Republic and the Farragut, and as part of the Axanar Peace Mission, after being stationed on Neural (aka Tyree's Planet) and probably in other situations as well)

1) Lieutenant Kirk serves as an instructor for underclassmen at the Academy while at the Command Course. During this time, he "cheats" on the Kobayashi Maru test, meets and nearly marries Carol Marcus, and serves as "acting captain" on a "little training cruise" ala Saavik in "The Wrath of Khan."

2) Lieutenant Kirk graduates with distinction from the Command Course, having received a commendation for cheating...

3) Lieutenant Kirk is assigned as first officer on a small ship, under a ship's captain who would probably hold the rank of Commander.

4) After a period of time, SOMETHING disastrous happens. Kirk's captain is killed, and Kirk must take command of a very serious situation. He succeeds beyond the wildest expectations of anyone at Starfleet, and basically knocks their socks off.

5) Kirk is granted a field promotion to Lieutenant Commander and is given command of the ship he's been serving on.

6) Kirk is promoted to Commander after a couple of years.

7) Pike is promoted to Fleet Captain.

Pike is reassigned to the Academy, and Starfleet comes up with a "short list" of officers who they see as suitable for commanding a top-level ship-of-the-line away from the direct supervision of the Starfleet chain of command. Kirk is on the list, but probably not at the very top.

9) Something else happens while Kirk commands his smaller charge, and Kirk becomes a recognized hero. He is given command of Enterprise for a short-duration mission, exploring beyond the rim.

10) Kirk's mission beyond the rim is a disaster, but his conduct proves him to be the man for the job. He is given permanent command of Enterprise.

11) However, Enterprise is heavily damaged and must be fully refit. She is fitted with new warp nacelles, a new bridge module, and replicators are installed that allow much of the ship's cargo space to be converted to crew space. As a result, the ship becomes a multi-role vessel (essentially fitting all the resources of a survey vessel into the spaces which were previously taken up by food stores and the like!).

Eleven other ships are refit to this standard at around the same time, and are launched on a much-publicized mission to "go where no man has gone before." (Meanwhile, many other cruiser-class ships remain in their original configuration, with crews of ~200.)

The full refit takes the better part of a year, during which Kirk and his crew become very well-acquainted. He brings on several replacement crew, including a former civilian doctor friend (met in one of his "formative" adventures, years before), a new communications officer, and many others.

There... that's the whole timeline as I believe it should be.

GET IT? You're arguing that I'm saying something I've never said. I never said, nor did I ever THINK, that Enterprise was Kirk's first command. Quite the opposite, in fact. I simply think that he was a first-officer before he was a commanding officer.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I would love to see the Obsession reference in the new film.

They should have a reasonably famous person playing Captain Garrovick, also. Such as this guy. :thumbsup:

 

[Trevok]

I don't see it happenning, A] because it seems the film is going to centre around Spock, and B] because I doubt the script will deal with that kind of trivia.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The film may be "narrated" by older Spock, but it doesn't necessarily have to center around him. What I did hear was that it would involve Kirk and Spock's first mission together.

As for the Farragut scenes: That wasn't just trivia, it was a major event in Kirk's life.