Will Khan Still be From the 1990s?

[Jackson_Roykirk]

First of all, this thread assumes that the rumors about this movie being a "Khan" movie are true (whether or not they are true is a different matter). With that stipulation out of the way...

...I have to wonder whether or not this film will stick with TOS's assertion that Khan went into space in 1996, after taking over a large chunk of the world, and later deposed?

I was never a big fan of the wishy-washy way Abrams and Co. felt the need to explain "their Universe" by having Nero's presence change history from that point in time (the point in time around Kirk's Birth) forward. Instead, I wish Abrams would have just put his foot down and said "OK -- This a reboot and total retelling of 'Star Trek' ", and tell their own stories with no strings attached.

If that were the case, then Abrams' Khan could be a pasty-white Brit from the year 2100, rather than a vaguely Spanish Sikh from the 1990s.

I assume they could get away with not mentioning the 1990s it by simply being "coy" or "silent" about certain details of Khan's origins, but I would rather they just tell me a whole new Khan back story that does NOT include the Eugenics war of the 1990s. Tell me Khan that is from our future, not our past.


So, are we going to hear about the Eugenics wars of the 1990s , and how Khan was a leader of a huge part of the population in the 90s before being deposed and going into space (circa 1996) in suspended animation aboard an interstellar sleeper ship? Or can we just ingore the whole 1990s backstory and create a new one? Hmmm?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The divergence isn't until 2233, long after Khan, so logically he would have to still be from the 1990s.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Actually, Khan was clearly a not-very-Indian man of Spanish background rather than "vaguely Spanish."

All they really have to do is say "several centuries ago" and leave it at that.

I assume they'll stick with TWOK's "genetic engineering" retcon rather than returning to "Space Seed's" selective breeding explanation.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

All they really have to do is say "several centuries ago" and leave it at that.

I assume they'll stick with TWOK's "genetic engineering" retcon rather than returning to "Space Seed's" selective breeding explanation.

As I said, I agree that they can be intentionally "silent" or coy with certain details of Khan's back story so as not to outwardly contradict Space Seed. However, I still think these movies would have been much "cleaner" from a fan standpoint if they would have just admitted they were total reboots.

Actually, Khan was clearly a not-very-Indian man of Spanish background rather than "vaguely Spanish."

I agree with this. It's much easier to believe that Khan was NOT Indian or Sikh. He may have risen to power in that region (maybe) and took an Indian-sounding nom de guerre, but that doesn't mean he was necessarily an ethnic Indian.

I think with Cumberbatch, you can make Khan to be a Brit who closely identifies himself with Indian culture enough to take an Indian name. There are plenty of Brits who have close ties to India, due to their Colonial past. Maybe Cumberbatch's Khan could shun his western roots and instead embrace Eastern culture, and make that part of his motivation for his actions.

Or, they could ignore the whole "India" angle altogether, just like TWoK ignored Space Seed's 1990s timeline.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I expect that if Cumberbatch's audition was as powerful as they've suggested - and his work prior to this is pretty remarkable - it's largely because he showed them something that persuaded them that he could be Khan, matching all the expectations they had based on their own development of the movie up to that point. So I doubt that the intention is to portray him as a Brit caucasian with no connection to the previous version of Khan. The producers have seen and know a great deal more than anyone speculating on all of this.

 

[Kelso]

Or, they could ignore the whole "India" angle altogether, just like TWoK ignored Space Seed's 1990s timeline.

A person who had only seen TWOK would have no idea that Khan was ever meant to have been from India. As I said in another thread, my brother's response to the casting of Cumberbatch was, "They couldn't find a blond guy?"

On the topic, I introduced my fiance to TWOK last night and she laughed aloud at the reference to 1996. I will be extremely surprised if they keep that for the new film. There certainly won't be a reference to WWIII taking place in the '90s.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I'm assuming here for purposes of argument that JJ Abrams is not an idiot.

What if Cumberbund is playing, not Ricardo Montelban's Khan, but rather a scientist who creates the race of supermen? I can see Cumberbund as an unhinged mad scientist, who is not himself the product of genetic engineering. He's the guy responsible for it all. THAT makes sense.

People walking out of the theater in 2013: "Okay flick, but if you were going to genetically engineer someone, why make him a skinny, ugly, pasty-faced dweeb?"

A person who had only seen TWOK would have no idea that Khan was ever meant to have been from India.

Other than the name? He's named Khan, not Joe or George. But even that can be finessed. Meet Fred Khan, Mad Scientist. Maybe he's a descendant of Madeline Kahn. Nobody knows how a name is spelled when it's in dialogue.

 

[Kelso]

A person who had only seen TWOK would have no idea that Khan was ever meant to have been from India.

Other than the name? He's named Khan, not Joe or George. But even that can be finessed. Meet Fred Khan, Mad Scientist. Maybe he's a descendant of Madeline Kahn. Nobody knows how a name is spelled when it's in dialogue.

Khan was also the title for a military ruler in Asia. I think audiences would more readily assume that he was named after that Mongolian dude.

 

[Lyon_Wonder]

They can just sidestep the exact timeline of the eugenics war or when Khan fled earth and only mention it vaguely without mentioning a specific year or decade, like ENT’s 3-part season 4 Augment episodes.

Of course, as I suggested a couple years ago, the writers have the option of making the Abramsverse a separate parallel reality in the Trek multiverse with it’s own unique preexisting history, and not just an alternate timeline that diverged from prime after Nero emerged with the anomaly.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Actually, Khan was clearly a not-very-Indian man of Spanish background rather than "vaguely Spanish."

All they really have to do is say "several centuries ago" and leave it at that.

I assume they'll stick with TWOK's "genetic engineering" retcon rather than returning to "Space Seed's" selective breeding explanation.

I think that's exactly what they're going to do. The hardcore fans will know Khan was from the 1990's and the non fan or casual fan might assume it means it's after our time but before Kirk's time.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Bob Orci is a fan of Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels, which portray the Eugenics Wars as a secret conflict, the true nature of which didn't come out until after WWIII. I can imagine someone mentioning "a secret war in the 1990's" or "a secret war, centuries ago"

As for the technology of the era being used to create augment supermen, everyone saw Captain America, right?

 

[tighr]

They could also own the 1990's angle, and explain it as the war being a secret one fought between world powers. Rather than let the public know, they launched the genetically engineered supermen into space with a plan to retrieve them later, but then we forgot or couldn't retrieve them.

I'm sure our world governments are doing all kinds of things we don't know about.

 

[Skellington]

If Khan in 1996 is the same age as Ricardo Montalban in 1967 then he would have been born circa 1949. Maybe he was meant to have been younger and left Earth as a wünderkind. But I think they may handwave the original placement of the Eugenics wars to make both them and the Botany Bay more plausible. Maybe 2096 instead of 1996, with the Botany Bay being a ship capable of relativistic or low-warp speeds.

 

[Skywalker]

If Khan in 1996 is the same age as Ricardo Montalban in 1967 then he would have been born circa 1949. Maybe he was meant to have been younger and left Earth as a wünderkind.

According to Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels (which may or may not be referenced in ST2), Khan was born in 1970.

 

[Shazam!]

Maybe 2096 instead of 1996, with the Botany Bay being a ship capable of relativistic or low-warp speeds.

Star Trek isn't real life. They could have warp capable ships in the 70s for all I care.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

TWoK ignored Space Seed's 1990s timeline.

Actually, no, it didn't. In the film, Khan specifically mentions he is from the year 1996.

 

[captainkirk]

But in both Space Seed and TWOK they said that he was from 200 years ago which makes him from about the 2050's.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ If Khan mentions a specific year, that trumps all.

 

[T'Girl]

In Space Seed, Kirk told Khan they "estimated" two centuries, which isn't the same as exactly 200 years. Kirk may not have felt the need to tell someone who was not completely conscious the figure of 270 years.

Chekov in TWOK refers to Khan as being the produce of the late 20th century.

 

[beamMe]

TWoK ignored Space Seed's 1990s timeline.

Actually, no, it didn't. In the film, Khan specifically mentions he is from the year 1996.

More specifically, the Botany Bay was launched into space with Khan and his followers in 1996.