Why LETTERMAN loses

[RobertScorpio]

..or better yet, why Leno wins.

The reason why Leno whips the heck out of Letterman is very simple. It has nothing to do with the networks they are on. It has everything to do with who they are and who they appeal to.

Letterman, from the start, has been the 'anti-establishment' guy. He built up his 'street cred' and did very good at it. Thats why he appeals to the 'young crowd' and the 'college crowd.. because he is always 'sticking it to the man'.

And it was because of that kind of humor that NBC went with Leno when Carson left. Leno has, and always will be, middle of the road. And as time has gone on, and especially in the Bush years, Letterman began wearing his politics more and more on his sleeve. That whole thing with his comment about Palin's daughter was disgusting. Oh, not to the anti-Bush/republican crowd..but to most sane people? It was disgusting. Then this crap about him and his employee sleeping together. To the young hip crowd? No big deal..but to the sane grown up people out there who work for a living...it was stupid and vile.

Leno, even before his 10pm show bombed, hasn't had decent lead ins for years. Letterman has the benefit of being on the most watched network, and still cant beat Leno.

Obrien, like Letterman, allows his political views into his humor as well. And just like Letterman's, they are left of center. Leno? You can't tell. Take this example from last night's Leno..

He was talking about the Arizona imigration law..

"Well, if you were planning on celebration Cinco de mayo in Arizona, you better change your plans now!"....got a good laugh. "Now that they are clamping down on migrant workers, I guess white parents in Arizona will actually have to raise their own kids."

Then he follows it up..

"That new law is already having effects. Just yesterday one police officer questioned 100 possible illegal aliens and that was in just one van." That got a big laugh too.


Leno will always have zingers on any issue from the left and the right. Letterman's hatred of George W. was well known. His relationship with Obama, on the other hand, seems to be one of a deep throat variety.

Leno will always win because he knows what his job is. To get the most viewers and not alienate them. Letterman, love him or hate him, doesn't make any bones about his political views and will always be on the outside...of ratings.

Rob

 

[T'Baio]

...but to the sane grown up people out there who work for a living...

That right there says a lot about you.

 

[Jax]

NBC never shoud of brought Leno back because hes doing no better than Conan who was fresh n new in the slot so had potential to build the audience over years, while Leno has been around so long he will struggle to build a new audience.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

...but to the sane grown up people out there who work for a living...

That right there says a lot about you.

I do love the oh so subtle implication that Letterman is the choice of ivory-tower liberals and Leno is out there preaching to the working man.



Give me a break.

 

[Garak]

Man, some people let that left/right bullshit infect just about everything.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Good point about Leno. My Dad watches him because he's on at the right time; couldn't when he was on earlier at 10 due to his work schedule. It's true. You can't really tell, and as a result, the jokes will either really hit or really miss, and some of those last night were pretty good. Although his Google Street View segment sucked. Was expecting him to actually find some people caught on Google Street View, and instead what he did was lame.

 

[Agent Richard07]

^ God, that street view thing last night was awful. They weren't even trying.

 

[sidious618]

...but to the sane grown up people out there who work for a living...

That right there says a lot about you.

I'm still wondering why we're capitalizing LETTERMAN.

 

[Ward Fowler]

Leno is milquetoast. Politics aside, Letterman has always been more witty, daring, and shown greater intelligence that Leno ever has. Leno is actually a big liberal himself but is scared to show it because it may alienate his viewers. For that reason alone, Letterman gets my respect, because he doesn't give a damn.

That being said, I don't necessarily believe that forums in the vein of Carson's Tonight Show are the proper place to air political ideology, but it is the proper place to mock those in power.

 

[Davros]

Leno sucks.

 

[Cyke101]

Obrien, like Letterman, allows his political views into his humor as well. And just like Letterman's, they are left of center. Leno? You can't tell.

Holy geeze, we're back to Conan. I guess I have to repost from that other thread:

Say what you will about Leno, Conan, or Letterman, but this I really have to call you out on. Conan's perhaps the >least< political of the three, or perhaps of any talk show host in the past 10 years. Letterman wears his politics on the show, sure, no doubt about it, but Leno gets controversial guests and newsmakers and asks them what you pretty much expect -- Hugh Grant, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Al Gore, Keith Olbermann, et all. Let's also remember that Arnold Schwarzenegger announced his candidacy for the governorship on his show. That's just about as political as anyone can get (not that there's anything wrong with that, either). So yes, I get the feeling that while Leno tried to balance things out, he was still political, and that's his right as a TV host. That's certainly not the problem, nor has it ever been for Leno. He's cashed in on politics, and that's fine and dandy, that's the nature of television.

Conversely, contrast that with Conan who, whenever he had a newsmaker on the show, he would purposely avoid asking tabloid questions, something he would declare at the start of every interview, and he would be diplomatic in his approach, much moreso than Letterman ever would. If he made fun of a politician, then surprise -- it was during the monologue and really the targets were no different than Letterman or Leno or Fallon or Ferguson would go after. In fact, Conan would usually get guests from both major parties, as there were no ambushes or real points of contention -- he just wanted to talk. He never really banked on the controversial aspects of his guests, which is also his right as a TV host. That's how he earned the nice guy moniker, and that's how Conan, for years, was able to get all sorts of figures and politicians across the spectrum to come on his show.

So to cite Conan's politics as a factor in all this is stretching it. In fact, this is perhaps the first time I've ever seen anyone, pro-Conan or pro-Jay, ever cite Conan's politics, ever in this whole debacle. Remember, this is the guy who made his parting speech about the dangers of cynicism, no matter who one is up against, the guy in the same speech who made it clear that his grudge was against NBC and not Jay. Politics as a downfall surely indeed sounds like cynicism to me.

Additionally, where were the complaints when O'Brien and Letterman trashed Clinton left and right in the 90s? There were virtually none whatsoever... Also remember, Leno maintained his lead in the 90s even though every night had at least one Clinton joke. Why are late night talk show jokes NOW the subject of punditry? Why are some politicians exempt and others are free game? Defend/attack whoever you want, but I think you're gasping at straws; if you look up Conan's facebook page, he has fans from across the political spectrum.

That being said, I don't necessarily believe that forums in the vein of Carson's Tonight Show are the proper place to air political ideology, but it is the proper place to mock those in power.

Which we in this thread have to realize has been an ongoing tradition for decades now, regardless of who's in charge. It's fantasy to believe that now, suddenly and without warning, politics is why one is doing worse than the other in late night TV.

Leno, Letterman, O'Brien, Ferguson, Kimmel, Fallon -- they're different entities than South Park and Stewart/Colbert.

 

[Mojochi]

Letterman is more genuine, & a genuinely funnier comedian. Leno is just a peddler wrapped up in mediocrity, & in light of recent events, quite possibly a whore. My favorite quote about Leno was a Tweet by Dana Gould

Leno would pop out your mom's eyeball and use the empty socket as a toe hold to climb up and show everyone how nice he was.

 

[Caliburn24]

Leno is bland, boring and predictable. But Letterman, at least today's Letterman is...just...not...funny. I can't remember laughing once at either of the two's bits in the past year.

My mental picture of Leno's audience is senior citizens getting ready for bed and wanting something to fall asleep to, while Letterman's audience is a younger crowd, generally half drunk and trying to laugh at anything.

Ferguson, especially the way he interviews people is better than either one of them. And Conan, despite being horrible at interviews, has better skits and monologues than either of them.