Why just another "Dark Mirror" Universe?

[Rahul]

Am I the only one that wonders why the alternate universe of PIC is SO similar to the Mirror Universe as depicted on DIS?

As far as I understood, there just happened to be an altercation in the timeline, time is broken, and as such Picard & his crew landed in an alternate, darker universe than their own and are on a mission to fix it. If so, there are basically endless possibilities for a good "Wat if...?" - scenario.

Why not:

1. A Federation at civil war - could have been really interesting with our heroes landing on different sides of the war, but secretly having to work together to group up again
2. An occupied Earth - after the Federation lost to the Dominion/Romulans/Klingons/Soji robots, and now our plucky team of heroes has to work underground
3. An apocalyptic Federation - after a large virus outbreak / Zombies / robot uprising, basically a "Mad Max"-scenario within the Star Trek universe
4. A very close but slightly darker scenario - think "Yesterday's Enterprise", with the Federation at war. Everything is very similar, just veeery slightly worse. Doesn't have to be the total apocalypse just for our heroes to want to restore the original timeline.
   
5. Full on Space War - against alien invaders (could be Borg, though that would change the story a lot - but could also be the evil robot tentacles from season 1). Basically wartime scenario, and the heroes have to find out what's going on, while everyone else is like "you can't use our ships for that!? We have to fight the Bugs!"
6. An Earth that never went into space - basically, a future where humans never developed the Warp drive. Doesn't even have to be a dystopia - just SO DIFFERENT that our heroes want to correct the past
7. A hologram Earth - where humans are basically almost extinct, and everything is run by holograms
   
8. Personal stuff - like in "Back to the Future", where everyhing is essentially the same, just our heroes/their loved ones don't exist/had horrible fates

Basically, there's tons of possibilities for a "changed present" to make our heroes go back to the past.

In general, I don't mind the idea of a "dark, fascist Federation". It's kind of fun. But in this case, I really wonder - because it's just SO similar to what we had just so much of on "Discovery" already? And basically at (or near) the beginning of each show. Does that mean "Strange New World" will also have an evil alternate universe in the first season?

So what do you think is the reason?
Did the writers just love to go full fanfic? Did the actors wanted to completely ham it up?

Why so similar?

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

It needed to be a universe where Picard is to blame for the horror so that rules out a lot of the above.

 

[FederationHistorian]

A Federation at civil war - could have been really interesting with our heroes landing on different sides of the war, but secretly having to work together to group up again

Maybe if a timeline where the 14 worlds really did leave the Federation for choosing the help the Romulans, and Janeway setup a second Federation in the Delta Quadrant instead of returning home this idea could be explored.

An occupied Earth - after the Federation lost to the Dominion/Romulans/Klingons/Soji robots, and now our plucky team of heroes has to work underground

If ever used, it will be for showing the MU version of the Earth-Romulan War (called the Teran-Romulan War) where the Romulans briefly occupied the Terran Empire. or the Klingon occupied Starfleet HQ in the Kelvin universe.

But a synth occupation would seem like an interesting storyline, in the aftermath of S1.

An apocalyptic Federation - after a large virus outbreak / Zombies / robot uprising, basically a "Mad Max"-scenario within the Star Trek universe

Too sensitive a topic due to the ongoing pandemic. Which is also why Noah Hawley's script for the 4th Kelvinverse movies was rejected, as it was set during a galactic pandemic.

“Impulse” was the zombie episode of Trek. Not sure how much trillium-D is needed to drive Vulcans (and presumably Romulan and Rigelians, who are also Vulcanoids) mad.

Robot uprising sounds like an alternate ending of PIC S1.

Although Mad Max Trek sounds interesting on paper.

A very close but slightly darker scenario - think "Yesterday's Enterprise", with the Federation at war. Everything is very similar, just veeery slightly worse. Doesn't have to be the total apocalypse just for our heroes to want to restore the original timeline.

Arguably, that’s exactly what this is. A darker version of “Yesterday’s Enterprise”. It's just not set on the Enterprise.

Full on Space War - against alien invaders (could be Borg, though that would change the story a lot - but could also be the evil robot tentacles from season 1). Basically wartime scenario, and the heroes have to find out what's going on, while everyone else is like "you can't use our ships for that!? We have to fight the Bugs!"

For some reason, if the space war doesn’t involve Klingons in some capacity, TPTB don’t seem to have an interest in the idea. Even the Xindi arc in ENT involved Klingons in the first episode of that arc where Earth is attacked, even though the Klingons were frankly out of place and did not fit the tone of that episode, and pushed far more appropriate scenes to be DVD extras found in deleted scenes.

An Earth that never went into space - basically, a future where humans never developed the Warp drive. Doesn't even have to be a dystopia - just SO DIFFERENT that our heroes want to correct the past

Definitely the most interesting idea here - that Earth missed first contact. There’d be no Terra Prime, and United Earth might not be around either, and no Starfleet or UESPA. So, it becomes a question of what happens after the post-atomic horror, if there even is an after. For that matter, what happens when Klaang still crash lands on Earth and is pursued by Suliban?

A hologram Earth - where humans are basically almost extinct, and everything is run by holograms

Hologram earth or hologram universe seems more suited for DIS, if you subscribe to the theory that the prime universe ended after PIC S1 because the extragalactic synths simply reopened the gateway, proceeded to cross over end all non-synthetic life the universe. Would definitely make Discovery much more interesting in lieu of its jump to the 32nd century.

Personal stuff - like in "Back to the Future", where everyhing is essentially the same, just our heroes/their loved ones don't exist/had horrible fates

So, something like “Future Imperfect”, “Parallels”, or AGT?

I think all the subsequent Trek series are just trying to have their own version of IAMD, due to how popular those episodes are with the fandom. Which goes to show how great of a job ENT did with those episodes.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Well the answer is that the universe has to be so bad that Picard thinks risking breaking all of reality and time is worth fixing it.

Also it's meant to be a more "realistic" version of the Mirror Universe as Discovery's version is ridiculous and got more ridiculous.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Because I'm pretty sure this is going in an anti-Trump direction, so they're trying to depict the Trek-era future of Trump's America.

While subbing Trump for Adam Soong or whatever in a Henry Starling/Bill Gates type thing.

 

[Tuskin38]

Adam doesn't seem to be a politician based on what we've seen him wearing, plus he's meeting Q while dressed as someone working on the Europa program.

He's probably a scientist.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Because I'm pretty sure this is going in an anti-Trump direction, so they're trying to depict the Trek-era future of Trump's America.

While subbing Trump for Adam Soong or whatever in a Henry Starling/Bill Gates type thing.

I think you can address the rise of authoritarianism and fascism in a modern context without going straight for Trump.

There's also Putin, Hungary, Brazil, and other Far Right politicians.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I think you can address the rise of authoritarianism and fascism in a modern context without going straight for Trump.

There's also Putin, Hungary, Brazil, and other Far Right politicians.

Trump has been the biggest and most bombastic for the past several years so he'll be the target. Star Trek and subtlety have never ever gone together.

 

[E-DUB]

Trump has been the biggest and most bombastic for the past several years so he'll be the target. Star Trek and subtlety have never ever gone together.

And there is also the Americentric aspect of Trek to consider. And while there are plenty of trumpy types in other countries (Modi, for instance), the US is still one of the few places where the consent of the people is still required to govern. (For the time being, at least.)

 

[Romulan_spy]

Am I the only one that wonders why the alternate universe of PIC is SO similar to the Mirror Universe as depicted on DIS?

As far as I understood, there just happened to be an altercation in the timeline, time is broken, and as such Picard & his crew landed in an alternate, darker universe than their own and are on a mission to fix it. If so, there are basically endless possibilities for a good "Wat if...?" - scenario.

Why not:

1. A Federation at civil war - could have been really interesting with our heroes landing on different sides of the war, but secretly having to work together to group up again
2. An occupied Earth - after the Federation lost to the Dominion/Romulans/Klingons/Soji robots, and now our plucky team of heroes has to work underground
3. An apocalyptic Federation - after a large virus outbreak / Zombies / robot uprising, basically a "Mad Max"-scenario within the Star Trek universe
4. A very close but slightly darker scenario - think "Yesterday's Enterprise", with the Federation at war. Everything is very similar, just veeery slightly worse. Doesn't have to be the total apocalypse just for our heroes to want to restore the original timeline.
   
5. Full on Space War - against alien invaders (could be Borg, though that would change the story a lot - but could also be the evil robot tentacles from season 1). Basically wartime scenario, and the heroes have to find out what's going on, while everyone else is like "you can't use our ships for that!? We have to fight the Bugs!"
6. An Earth that never went into space - basically, a future where humans never developed the Warp drive. Doesn't even have to be a dystopia - just SO DIFFERENT that our heroes want to correct the past
7. A hologram Earth - where humans are basically almost extinct, and everything is run by holograms
   
8. Personal stuff - like in "Back to the Future", where everyhing is essentially the same, just our heroes/their loved ones don't exist/had horrible fates

Basically, there's tons of possibilities for a "changed present" to make our heroes go back to the past.

In general, I don't mind the idea of a "dark, fascist Federation". It's kind of fun. But in this case, I really wonder - because it's just SO similar to what we had just so much of on "Discovery" already? And basically at (or near) the beginning of each show. Does that mean "Strange New World" will also have an evil alternate universe in the first season?

So what do you think is the reason?
Did the writers just love to go full fanfic? Did the actors wanted to completely ham it up?

Why so similar?

Presumably, the writers picked the Confederation timeline because it fits the theme of the season. In the Confederation timeline, Picard was the "Borgslayer", known for leading the war that wiped out the Borg. Q says that Picard must do penance and can only hope for forgiveness, not atonement, implying he is guilty of something terrible. My guess is that it will likely tie in to Picard getting a do-over on the Stargazer and trusting the Borg Queen instead of fearing her. Q is trying to teach Picard to be open minded about the Borg being able to change. That fits with the Confederation timeline where General Picard gave in to his hate of the Borg and wiped them out. The other timelines you mention would be very interesting but they would not work for exploring Picard's character and his fear of the Borg so they would not work for the story that the writers are trying to tell this season.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I still don't understand why everybody wants to cut the Borg so much slack.

By definition, the Borg not only don't want to change, they can't. They are a collective which is absolutely dedicated to the assimilation of all other life forms. And what they can't assimilate, they destroy. Logically speaking, how can a race like that possibly change?

(Indeed, in a very real sense, the Borg are not actually a race; they're a force of nature. Can't trust a tornado, hurricane or earthquake; the Borg are no different.)

So Picard's supposed to trust the Borg. How? Why? What could the Borg possibly do to even comprehend trust, let alone deserve it? It's literally a foreign concept to them.

 

[Romulan_spy]

By definition, the Borg not only don't want to change, they can't. They are a collective which is absolutely dedicated to the assimilation of all other life forms. And what they can't assimilate, they destroy. Logically speaking, how can a race like that possibly change?

I think Q would have a word with you. That is very closed minded. Of course the Borg can change. A collective just means all the drones are a single "mind". But that "mind" can still change. Heck, I am sure the Borg Collective has changed in some ways as they assimilated new tech and new ideas. In theory, they could possibly change their "prime directive" where they no longer believe in destroying or assimilating. They could become a peaceful Collective that develops and grows in other ways and don't need to assimilate or destroy anymore. It would be a radical change in their core nature. In fact, the fact that the Borg Collective got completely wiped out in the Confederation timeline and in our timeline apparently got severely decimated after the events in Voyager's Endgame, it is not inconceivable that being nearly exterminated as a race is the shock they need to adapt to a more peaceful Collective. The Borg Collective would just be adapting like they always do, just this time, they realize they need to become more peaceful, rather than assimilate differently. Is it likely? Probably not. But it is theoretically possible.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That is very closed minded.

Takes one to know one.

(And I meant the Borg, not you. )

I mean, even ignoring for the moment how the Borg have always been presented as a relentless, unstoppable force...just look at the Stargazer scene. The Queen beams onto the bridge and starts assimilating it, the crew, AND the entire fleet to boot. What would you have had Picard do? Beg for mercy?

 

[Romulan_spy]

just look at the Stargazer scene. The Queen beams onto the bridge and starts assimilating it, the crew, AND the entire fleet to boot. What would you have had Picard do? Beg for mercy?

Assimilating involves inserting nanoprobes into people that converts them into Borg drones and inserting nanoprobes into the ship to convert the tech. The Borg Queen did not do that. In fact, she stunned the crew even when they were attacking her. Unless it is a new form of assimilation. It was certainly not the traditional way of assimilating that we've seen before. She was taking over the computer systems of the fleet because she needed power. Some have speculated that moving through the temporal anomaly drained the Borg of power like how the Borg Queen was drained of power after the slingshot maneuver through time. So maybe this Borg Queen desperately needed power to keep the Collective alive after moving through the anomaly. It would explain why she was forceful about coming onboard and interfacing with the ship but did not kill the crew. It would make sense if she needed power but did not intend to actually assimilate or destroy the ship. Maybe I am too naive. But I would not be surprised if the finale reveals that I am right and these Borg were peaceful and what happened on the Stargazer was a big misunderstanding. It might be the lesson that Q is trying to teach Picard: that he needs to be more open minded because these Borg have changed. We shall see.

On Screen Rant, they have a theory that Jurati will be able to stop the Borg Queen on the Stargazer because she has gotten inside the Borg Queen as seen in ep 3. So maybe the Borg Queen is really trying to take over the fleet as you suggest but Jurati will interface with her and stop her?

 

[fireproof78]

I still don't understand why everybody wants to cut the Borg so much slack.

By definition, the Borg not only don't want to change, they can't. They are a collective which is absolutely dedicated to the assimilation of all other life forms. And what they can't assimilate, they destroy. Logically speaking, how can a race like that possibly change?

(Indeed, in a very real sense, the Borg are not actually a race; they're a force of nature. Can't trust a tornado, hurricane or earthquake; the Borg are no different.)

So Picard's supposed to trust the Borg. How? Why? What could the Borg possibly do to even comprehend trust, let alone deserve it? It's literally a foreign concept to them.

I am of two minds. On the one hand the Borg suck. On the other hand, they are a collective consciousness, a hive mind. Can that mind be changed?

 

[thribs]

It’ll be interesting how this alternate timeline connects with the anomaly from episode one. I doubt it was just Q. There would be a reason

 

[Lord Exor]

I still don't understand why everybody wants to cut the Borg so much slack.

By definition, the Borg not only don't want to change, they can't. They are a collective which is absolutely dedicated to the assimilation of all other life forms. And what they can't assimilate, they destroy. Logically speaking, how can a race like that possibly change?

(Indeed, in a very real sense, the Borg are not actually a race; they're a force of nature. Can't trust a tornado, hurricane or earthquake; the Borg are no different.)

So Picard's supposed to trust the Borg. How? Why? What could the Borg possibly do to even comprehend trust, let alone deserve it? It's literally a foreign concept to them.

The Borg seem to derive most of their direction from the Borg Queen, who herself appears to be psychopathic. Without her influence, it's possible they could change, but they would likely hew closer to the Cooperative than the Collective.

As for the premise of the this thread: It was done as a commentary on the contemporary rise of national populism, nothing more than that. I don't think the execution was particularly clever or fascinating, but thankfully it seems most of this season takes place elsewhere. Personally, with the likely advancement of transhumanism in the next few decades, I feel the Borg themselves would provide superior fodder for exploring near-future ethical quandaries.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Borg seem to derive most of their direction from the Borg Queen

If the writers had just stuck to the fucking plan, there wouldn't even BE a Borg Queen...

 

[Lord Exor]

A lot of the major alien races have been revised over the years, the Borg are no different.