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Why is mature audiences animation such a maligned genre?

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EmmanuelZorg

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Is it seems that people think animation is for all ages and everyone? well the Japanese and Ralph Bakshi have proven wrong. Afterall there is a comeback of mature audiences animation with "Beowulf" and the upcoming "9", "Waltz with Bieher", "Scanner Darkly", and the coming soon multi-animated remake of "Heavy Metal" done with David Fincher, Zack Sydner, Guillermo Del Toro, Gore Verbinski and Kevin Eastman.

Animation for mature audiences have came over the years with fine examples like "Fantastic Planet", "Fritz The Cat", "Akira", "Hevy Traffic", "Ghost in The Shell", "Perfect Blue", "Metropolis", "Princess Mononoke", "American Pop", "Pink Floyd The Wall", "Heavy Metal", "Urotsukidoji: Legend of the Overfiend", "Fire and Ice", "Wicked City", "Starchaser: Legend of Orin", "Cowboy Bebop", "South Park: Bigger Longer and Uncut", "LightYears", "The Professional: Golgo 13", "Wizards", "Beavis and Butt-Head Do America", "Project A-Ko", "Rock and Rule", "Team America" and "Meet The Feebles".
 
Is it a maligned genre? You mention South Park in your list...I can't think of anything less maligned amongst "mature" persons! Throw in Family Guy and you're rolling right down the middle o' the road...
 
Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's very popular, because it's very funny.

Who is it being "maligned" by?
 
are you referring simply to American stuff or just animation in general? You mention a couple of animes in your list and as far as mature audiences are concerned, mature audience anime is very much alive and well.
 
Are you trying to say that most people see animation as inherently kids' stuff, or family-friendly entertainment, and so scoff at the idea of cartoons for adults?

One does come across that attitude from some people (as with comics and video games) but I don't think it's very prevailant these days; adult cartoons like South Park have been popular for years, and even more "kid-friendly" shows like The Simpsons are enjoyed as much by adults as children and teens.
 
This is only really true in our corner of the world and it's largely to do with the animation crash of the late 60's and 70's where a huge number of poorly produced kids shows flooded the market. Generally people tend to only think of animation as either for kids or as comedy because 30 years ago that's all that was being produced.

In Japan, where a similar crash didn't happen, people don't have the same preconceptions about the medium that we tend to have here. And the popularization of anime in the west over the past decade or two has definitely helped to turn the tide of perception as to what animation can be.
 
byron lomax said:
Are you trying to say that most people see animation as inherently kids' stuff, or family-friendly entertainment, and so scoff at the idea of cartoons for adults?

One does come across that attitude from some people (as with comics and video games) but I don't think it's very prevailant these days; adult cartoons like South Park have been popular for years, and even more "kid-friendly" shows like The Simpsons are enjoyed as much by adults as children and teens.
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I think that's it.
Arrghman said:
This is only really true in our corner of the world and it's largely to do with the animation crash of the late 60's and 70's where a huge number of poorly produced kids shows flooded the market. Generally people tend to only think of animation as either for kids or as comedy because 30 years ago that's all that was being produced.
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True. Also toy & cereal companies capitalized on the idea of cartoons being for kids. Also take the fact that in the fifties comic books were almost OUTLAWED because of violent & mature content, thus had to be toned down for KIDS. I'm sure the same could easily be applied to cartoons if certain people had there way, so the animation companies took the safe route and just made cartoons for kids. It's really been just recently that animation (american) has been taking more mature steps.
 
I think presenting the successful American animated comedies is a bit misleading. I think part of the success of South Park and The Simpsons is because part of the humor is from the disconnect of adult stuff coming from kiddie toons.

There are very few instances of successful animated stuff coming from genres other than satirical comedy that are for audiences older than kids and teens. I also think there is a reverse bias which keeps people from thinking stuff that is not "mature" has anything to offer such as shows like "Avatar: The Last Airbender".

Anime throws a wrinkle in there but I'm not sure if *mainstream* audiences embrace that either.

I think cartoons are seen as something one should "outgrow" as they get older and are not given much consideration.
 
miraclefan said:
True. Also toy & cereal companies capitalized on the idea of cartoons being for kids. Also take the fact that in the fifties comic books were almost OUTLAWED because of violent & mature content, thus had to be toned down for KIDS. I'm sure the same could easily be applied to cartoons if certain people had there way, so the animation companies took the safe route and just made cartoons for kids. It's really been just recently that animation (american) has been taking more mature steps.
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Nothing similar happened to animation, at least not uniquely so. There was the Hays Code, of course, but that applied to the entirety of the film industry in the US.

You can read the quick Wiki version of the history here, but the idea that animation was mainly for children can really be traced to the mid-60s when the animation industry started stagnating and collapsing in on itself. Ironically, things like saturday morning cartoons did a lot to harm the public perception of animation due to the very poor quality schlock that was churned out in the 70s by Hanna-Barbera. And it did a lot of harm to public perception of animation in general. A trend that has, fortunately, been slowly reversing.
 
I think presenting the successful American animated comedies is a bit misleading. I think part of the success of South Park and The Simpsons is because part of the humor is from the disconnect of adult stuff coming from kiddie toons.

There are very few instances of successful animated stuff coming from genres other than satirical comedy that are for audiences older than kids and teens. I also think there is a reverse bias which keeps people from thinking stuff that is not "mature" has anything to offer such as shows like "Avatar: The Last Airbender".

Anime throws a wrinkle in there but I'm not sure if *mainstream* audiences embrace that either.

I think cartoons are seen as something one should "outgrow" as they get older and are not given much consideration.
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I agree with everything you said - although I disagree that "adult animation" is maligned overall, it's a pity people have such narrow focus on satirical comedies like Family Guy.

The "outgrowing cartoons" attitude is rather annoying - like comic books, there is so much evidence to the contrary nowadays, and yet a large number of people still hold on to that attitude.
 
"Maligned" is probably not the right word to use here. "Belittled" would probably work better. Sure, shows like South Park and Family Guy are popular, but at the core, they hook people with satirical and toilet humor, and tend to get flak when they veer from that course (i.e. When Trey&Matt or Seth McFarland gets on their soapbox). So in that respect, those sort of shows really don't help with the impression that animation is a niche genre for kids shows and Aesops wrapped in a fart joke.

I think the difference is that Western animation often doesn't give the seriousness to pull off a dramatic presentation that doesn't rely of crude humor or politics to draw in viewers. Which is sad, because it can be done well. The best proof of this is probably the DCAU (Batman: The Animated Series, Superman, Batman Beyond, and Justice League), but it's hard to get it taken seriously in America by the population at large, for various reasons.
 
it doesnt help that Disney's attempt at more mature animated films, Treasure Planet & Atlantis, bombed & then they use it as scapegoats for why nobody wants to see serious animation. It also feuled the likes of Dreamworks to make more films in the cutesy wise-cracking talking animal comedy vein.
 
melancholymecha said:
it doesnt help that Disney's attempt at more mature animated films, Treasure Planet & Atlantis, bombed
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I've not seen either film but I saw the DVD at the store in the "Disney" section. If Disney is making an animated film rated PG it is aimed at kids. If they make a PG-13 film it is a risky business decision. Disney will not make an R-Rated animated film. We know that an R rating is for adults and "mature themes". Even heavy violence films like Transformers and Terminator Salvation have PG-13 ratings.
The CG animated film "The Polar Express" is still for kids but older kids. After seeing the cinematic trailer this week for "Star Wars The Old Republic" I think audiences would accept a CG film like that instead of live-action for fantasy and science fiction genres.
Cetain genres lend themselves more to animation than live-action. (Alien worlds, alien characters, massive locations that would be very expensive to build as a set) That is where we will see it attempted (a risky-business-decision) first.
 
I think mature audience, non-comedy, animation has to go the extra mile to appeal to mainstream.

Beowulf sucked. That's all I really wanted to say. I only paid a dollar and it still sucked. Honestly, after that I am less likely to see a "mature animated" movie. At least when a live action movie stinks you can still relate to the actors on screen to some degree.
 
Another problem is people have grown to associate the words "mature" and "anime" with hentai; or more commonly known as "tentacle rape cartoons" even if that is itself only a subset of hentai and hentai is a subset of the mature side of anime.

It's slow moving but it is changing that people stop associating "mature" or "adult cartoon" with porn. This is the same kind of stereotype repackaged every few years as something seemingly meant for children is "perverted" for adult use. Cartoons are only one of the victims.

There is some excellent adult-oriented animation out there but it's not mainstream enough to break the stereotype, and when it is it's seen as an exception, not the rule. I'm hoping it changes but like all things, that takes time.
 
What about stuff like Akira, Ghost in The Shell, Heavy Metal, Fire and Ice, Urotsukidoji: Legend of the Overfiend, Fritz The Cat, or South Park The Movie? especially Urotsukidoji the infamous anime movie of tentacle rape, violence, gore, exploding heads, sex and demons.
 
Some of them like GITS, Akira, Heavy Metal and a handful of others are given that "notable exception" notation by most critics and the general public where it concerns cartoons made for adults. Sadly they aren't seen as a confirmation cartoons can successfully work as a mature audience media.
 
When it comes to most of the general public in the western world, animation aimed at adult audiences is neither maligned nor belittled, nor is anime looked at askance because it's associated with hentai (very few people would even know what hentai is). No, it's more that animation for adults, and anime in particular, simply isn't on the radar screen at all.
 
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