Why Is "Into Darkness" So [imagine a different, more accurate past participle here]?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by TedShatner10, May 20, 2022.

  1. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    BillJ
    No matter how badly we want it to be so, there is no logical rhyme or reason to why we like things. All the other science fudges Trek has done won't make a difference to people who don't like the "Magic Blood".

    It is a waste of keystrokes to argue the issue.
     
    Daddy Todd likes this.
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    It's both hilarious and sad to me that it will be dismissed out of hand because the real science doesn't work like the magic tech.
     
  3. saddestmoon

    saddestmoon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Ten years since Into Darkness??!??! Wow - where has the time gone!

    Still a wonderfully fun watch for me, and I love all the starship designs which came out of this movie.

    The music / score is also top-notch, IMO.
     
  4. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Location:
    Annwn
    I still remember how unseasonably warm it was on the day the DVD/blu-ray was released.

    Walking around outside felt a little like being in an oven.

    At one point I had to sit down on the sidewalk for a while because I felt like I was going to collapse.
     
  5. Daddy Todd

    Daddy Todd Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Location:
    Utah
    who says all those ridiculous flights of fancy are “no problem”? It’s possible to look askance at all of those.

    Plus, please show me any therapy that will bring back someone who’s been dead for, what, a couple days?
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    BillJ
    Well, as far as bullshit fictional science goes, McCoy ordered him into immediate stasis to preserve brain functions. Khan's blood rapidly healed Kirk's body. It was likely only a few hours between Kirk's death and McCoy's treatments beginning.

    As much as I love Trek, this is no worse than a lot of other things done on Trek. Besides, who knows what we'll be capable of in the 23rd century? Isn't that part of the science-fiction experience?
     
    saddestmoon, fireproof78 and Ovation like this.
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    He wasn't.

    He was dead and put in stasis to preserve brain function.

    It's in the text of the film.
    Exactly.
     
    saddestmoon, burningoil and Ovation like this.
  8. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    Saw it again today. Loved it as much as always.
     
    burningoil, BillJ, ED-209 and 4 others like this.
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2023
    Location:
    Fiddler's Green
    I don't "hate" STID - that's far too strong an expression - but it's certainly my least favourite of the Kelvin films.

    1) Tropes: When I went to see the film, the screening was held up so my friend and I got to sit around killing time by predicting what we thought the film would include. And it all did. Lens flare. Jumping off high things. Scraping large object and sparking. Someone shouting Khan....

    2) The mysogyny. Uhura starts with with having an inappropriate and unprofessional "domestic" with Spock - because, women, you know, always prioritise the personal over everything. Her "speak Klingon" scene could have been cut in its entirety without affecting the film. Marcus does a bit better but had a breathy "little girl" voice and a naive "little girl" atiitude about Daddy not being mean to her (Try giving that dialogue to a man). Also completely gratutious underwear scene. (And no, a male showerscene would not have redressed the balance, it would just have been inappropriate too...but noticeably, that was the one that got cut). This was 2013. Should have done better.

    3) Gratutious violence. I can wear the shooting-up of the meeting as dramatically more exciting than the more sensible (and efficient) lobbong a bomb through the window. The bits that make me uncomfortable are: Kirk hitting Khan repeatedly. he's surrendered! he's unarmed! he's not resisting! ONE punch to illustrate Kirk's anger: yes. Complete loss of control: No. Ditto Spock beating Khan to death. Just disgusting.

    4) The magic blood. No, not because it cures but because of the ethics concerned. Did Khan freely consent to the use of his blood or was he coerced either by threats to his crew or by promises to protect his crew? After all he's only been allowed to live because his blood is of use. We see the stasis pods in some kind of facility at the end. Are these going to be treated respectfully or is that magic blood going to be too tempting? It seems to me that the ethics of our alleged "good guys" aren't very different from the ethics of the badmiral.

    In conclusion: the film's too predictable and makes me uncomfortable
     
    Paul Weaver and Daddy Todd like this.
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    I don't belive were supposed to feel anything but.
    Indeed. The theme of the film is the temptation to misuse power in response to evil.

    I think that's the point.
     
    BillJ and saddestmoon like this.
  11. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Location:
    Annwn
    He should have been beating Abrams to death for making Khan a white guy.
     
  12. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    The anger over racial stereotyping in a film that ends with 9/11 x 10,000 perpetrated by a guy with brown skin probably would have made the Trekkie outcry over White Khan seem like nothing.
     
  13. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    I wonder if ID and Skyfall the last films to so blatantly rip off a memorable part of The Dark Knight, or at least specifically its the bad guy lets himself get captured in order to escape part?
     
  14. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    I doubt TDK was the first film to come up with that concept.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    BillJ
    The ethics of the alleged "good guys" has always been questionable.
     
    saddestmoon, Victoria and fireproof78 like this.
  16. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    BillJ
    If I were to pick one thing I really didn't like about the movie, it would be the Nimoy cameo. Felt really forced.
     
    saddestmoon, Victoria and fireproof78 like this.
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    That and the space jump.
     
    Set Harth likes this.
  18. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    McCoy using Khan's blood without his consent certainly does bring up questions of the ethics of medical experimentation in the service of the state, within the framework of a future space navy/military organization such as Starfleet. :shifty:

    Kor
     
  19. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    La Belle Province
    He consented when he gave his blood in the brig. It wasn’t forcibly removed nor did Khan voice any objections.
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Not really, because Khan felt he had the whole situation under control.