Why Is "Into Darkness" So Hated?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by TedShatner10, May 20, 2022.

  1. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

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    You’ve got a funny idea of the word ‘accurate’. The movie shares two characters with TWOK and one reversed character death (which wasn’t a TWOK thing anyway). Other than that they are totally different.
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A rip off implies copying themes or plots. ID is it's own story.

    Also, a main character dying and coming back is in many stories, so, no, not a TWOK rip off.
    Yeah, sorry, the Genesis Torpedo is dumber than blood based therapies.
     
  3. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

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    The dead character doesn’t even come back in TWOK. Dead and given a funeral then shot at Genesis.
     
  4. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    I'm not convinced these two statements really belong in the same argument, but YMMV.

    Speaking only for myself, I didn't think TWoK worked well when I saw it on the original release, and the intervening four decades haven't done much to change that impression. There are parts of it that I liked but, taken as a whole, I feel it falls far short of earning the "BEST STAR TREK MOVIE EVAR" label.

    Credit where credit is due: I found it more entertaining than TMP, but that's not a very high bar to clear.
     
  5. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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  6. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  7. saddestmoon

    saddestmoon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I also love it as a movie, and it’s extremely re-watchable - more so than Beyond (which I also enjoyed for a completely different set of reasons).
     
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  8. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    At the time, I liked that ST:ID tackled a somewhat controversial story - the militarization of our culture and suppression of human rights in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks - and got very little credit for it.

    But due to my partner's love for the movie, I have seen it over and over, in whole and in bits and pieces, in the last five years or so. And as cool as parts of it still are, quite honestly, it's a dreadful movie. The story is nonsense, the plot absolutely arbitrary gibberish in both sweep and detail. It is ponderous, and slow. The reviewer I linked to above touches on some of its failings, although they're not really really reviewing the film in this case so much as using it to springboard commentary about other subjects.

    There's a popular Trekkie game where every plot and story failing of some awful episode are presented one by one and explained away in whatever respect is necessary in order for the defender to maintain that the script works when it in fact does not. Well, you can do that all day with ST:ID, if you like, do it for a week, and it doesn't succeed in really salvaging the flick even a little bit.
     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I find the film quite enjoyable. It's commentary is welcome and Kirk's arc is good. But, the space jump really messes up the pacing. Too bad.
     
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  10. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    In my advancing years, I spend far less time focusing on plot and story (save for basic elements) and far more on performances by the actors. In that regard, STID only increases in pleasure for me when rewatching. But that's my thing--doesn't have to be anyone else's.
     
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Same. And the performances are excellent in my opinion . So while there's parts I skip the parts I enjoy are all the better for the performances.
     
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  12. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I'm far more interested in story and character than in plot, so a plot has to be egregiously bad for it to annoy me. ST:ID is bad enough to annoy me.
     
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  13. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Honestly, I just wish Spock didn't yell "Khaaaaan!" and Kirk's death wasn't undone so easily. Otherwise I love ID.
     
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  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Khan Yell and the Space jump are the only two things I really hold against the film.
     
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  15. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    Spock’s yell is more relevant and appropriate, in story, than Kirk’s. Whether it works or not for the viewer is far less decisive. The blood therapy my wife’s biotech employer is currently developing would have appeared nearly as miraculous as what we see in Into Darkness if it were portrayed on film 30-35 years ago. The complaint about “magic blood” is the least credible of any leveled at the movie.
    The space jump loses much of its effectiveness if one has seen 09. By itself it’s reasonably good, but nothing special.
     
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  16. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    The magic blood was a ridiculous gimmick.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think the best part of it was how Kirk is able to say "Done it before" and Khan is actually impressed. It's one aspect of that scene that I appreciate, and again it's largely character related. Kirk's whole story, start to finish, is very well done. His death scene still gets me emotional.
     
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  18. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    Nah.
     
  19. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    https://ew.com/article/2016/07/19/star-trek-darkness-decadent-los-angeles-panorama/

    That was a pretty interesting article. Gets a bit wrong about the Crystal Cathedral, but.

    There's something to be said for movie-as-spectacle. And until reading here on the board, the theme(s) bypassed me because of the spectacle (and noise! I had to cover my ears in the theater).

    Why is it so tinted teal? Really obvious in the photos. The writer makes a good point, it is so colorful in the opening set-piece, but becomes monochrome. Is that tied to the theme of a bleak future if militarism and terrorism reign? Or was it just a thing? I rarely movie, so wouldn't know.
     
  20. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It acted as if it was being against militarization, hawkishness in general but all it actually said and stood for was just don't attack who didn't attack you which I felt was a very underwhelming stand and message in 2012-13 (4 years after the presidential election of a politician who had opposed the Iraq war from the start).