Why Is "Into Darkness" So Hated?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by TedShatner10, May 20, 2022.

  1. Ghel

    Ghel Captain Captain

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    I really liked this movie. I think perhaps it is at least in part because I was watching "Fringe" at the time as well, so I felt like I saw was JJ Abrams was doing. For those that don't know or remember, one major point in Fringe is that the characters enter a parallel universe where they find out who they would have been and how they would have behaved had their life situation and personal histories been different.
    When I saw Into Darkness, I really felt like JJ Abrams was playing with this concept, so rather than "ripping off" Wrath of Khan, it was asking, how would THIS crew react to events similar to those in WoK.
    To me, it's like accusing Back to the Future 2 of "Ripping off" Back to the Future because Marty goes back inside the events of the first film to retrieve the Sports Almanac.
    Yes, the events are similar, but the characters and motives are very different.
     
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  2. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My issues with the movie were never about the "ripping off" of TWOK (mainly because I don' t think it did, in any way).

    I just think the plot was a little / a lot over-baked, and the ending 1/4 of the movie is dreadful. Like- worst stuff in the entire movie franchise. It's unfortunate, though...because the earlier 3/4 are really quite entertaining. The acting / cast is stellar in this one, and it is an absolutely gorgeous movie to look at.
     
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  3. Dee1891

    Dee1891 Captain Captain

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    I've already read the comments. I still believe the 2009 movie is the worst of the Kelvin franchise.
     
  4. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Yes. We've been reading the comments. I think everyone's got that part.

    However, as this thread is specifically about a different movie, perhaps you could provide a link to that article you mentioned writing, and post it in a thread which IS about the 2009 movie?

    Just a thought. ;)
     
  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's nice, but you asked why anyone would consider ID the worst of the three films, and why people dislike ID is what this thread is discussing. Whether the 2009 film is worse than this one is out of scope of the original question.
     
  6. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Who said any one was "supposed to" regard any of them as anything? A lot of fans just don't like that movie.
     
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  7. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, I saw it. And I hated it then.

    It's a lazy film. It repeats most of the plot points and set pieces from ST09. Kirk is too foolhardy to be Captain and learns how to be responsible... again. He does another space dive sequence... again. Spock loses his temper and starts beating someone up... again. Leonard Nimoy has a cameo as OG Spock... again.

    And then at the end it starts regurgitating the ending of TWOK, only in reverse, not realizing or caring that Spock's death in that film was so touching because of all the shared history that he and Kirk had. The new guys barely knew or liked each other. Plus, there's absolutely no point in doing a poignant death scene when you're going to reverse it 15 minutes later. Yeah, they reversed Spock's death, too, but when they killed off Spock in TWOK, they actually meant it.

    The magic blood stuff, the interplanetary transporter, taking the ship underwater for no reason, the gratuitousness of Alice Eve stripping down to her underwear for no reason, the pointlessness of them pretending that Benedict Cumberbatch wasn't playing Khan in the entire leadup to the film, the 9/11 parallels... It's just an aggressively dumb movie.
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    People can dislike this film all they want but please research blood based and platelet based treatments before the whole "magic blood" nonsense poison's the mind.
    Yes, there is. Because the character doesn't know they are going to survive.
     
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  9. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Okay. If you saw it and didn't like it, then you saw it and didn't like it. But that means you're clearly not part of that majority of which I was speaking in the bit you quoted above.
     
  10. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The audience certainly does.

    On what are basing your assertion that the majority of the people who say they didn't like it didn't watch it?
     
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, main character dying is not usually expected.
     
  12. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A main character dying and coming back is painfully predictable in a WoK rip off.
     
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  13. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

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    So what? It's like that with most drama.

    I find it bewildering when people seem to think that the audience being clued in to the fact that the hero can't die is a new thing. It goes back millennia and it's part of an implicit, subconscious agreement between those watching and those being watched. Killing characters isn't the clever part and that's not usually what audiences watch a story for. The clever part is how the characters get out of a given situation and survive.

    It's like people griping about SNW lacking tension because they know Spock can't die or the Enterprise can't be destroyed. Like only certain death and destruction can legitimise drama.

    Aside from a few isolated moments that are there to pay homage to TWOK, ID is nothing like a rip off. A few isolated moments, that's all, but otherwise the movie is a very different beast.
     
  14. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

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  15. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

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    Probably because they tend to repeat such shallow and inaccurate criticisms - eg calling it a "WoK rip off", that it's as if they've not seen it.
     
  16. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I find it an extremely accurate description of the quite shallow movie that I assure you I've seen. In the theatre even.
     
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  17. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    None of the movie themes mirror WoK, though. The reason for the sacrifice was entirely different. The plot, despite Khan and Carol appearing, has nothing to do with the WoK storyline.
     
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  18. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

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    Is any of that really dumber than (to name but a few):
    * A torpedo which instantly terraforms a planet and creates abundant life
    * A ship conducting planetary surveys failing to notice that the entire planet next to the one they're surveying is missing
    * Kirk having a son he's never mentioned before
    * Ships being rendered helpless through a five-digit code
    * Scotty bringing a dead cadet to the bridge
    * Khan being turned into a ham, and a moron who doesn't understand tactics which were old hat in WWII
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
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  19. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes.

    Because when a movie works, you're much more forgiving of the dumb stuff. TWOK works. STID doesn't.
     
  20. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    True. Except you’ve got the movies backwards in terms of which works better. Other than that, totally agree. :p
     
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