Why did the Rubber Tree People have ridges..?? (Tattoo question)

[Roald]

Something I've never, ever understood, is why the Rubber Tree People in Chakotay's flashbacks from 'Tattoo' seem to have alien ridges just like the 'Sky Spirits'... Aren't these supposed to be Native Americans..? Humans..? I've tried the Encyclopedia, Memory Alpha, etc., but I can't find an answer......... Can anyone help me out..?

 

[exodus]

I think they're supposed to be decendants of both.


The ep. was trash anyway.
The less you try and figure it out, the better off you'll be.

 

[Roald]

The ep. was trash anyway.
The less you try and figure it out, the better off you'll be.

Disagree. I thought the episode was actually very good..! It was very spiritual, and I liked the way the flashbacks were integrated in the story. Also, some shots were beautiful, for instance near the end when Chakotay and the Sky Spirit speak, and the conversation is shot with intense close-ups where the faces are partly overlapped by the opposing figure... I just love that!

 

[exodus]

The ep. was trash anyway.
The less you try and figure it out, the better off you'll be.

Disagree. I thought the episode was actually very good..! It was very spiritual, and I liked the way the flashbacks were integrated in the story. Also, some shots were beautiful, for instance near the end when Chakotay and the Sky Spirit speak, and the conversation is shot with intense close-ups where the faces are partly overlapped by the opposing figure... I just love that!

The cinematography is fine on it's own but as someone part Native American myself I find the underlying message in it racist and offensive.

 

[Roald]

The cinematography is fine on it's own but as someone part Native American myself I find the underlying message in it racist and offensive.

In what way? The suggestion that Native Americans were inspired by aliens (or the other way around) might be somewhat controversial, but I wouldn't call it racist or offensive. But I'm not sure what underlying message you'd refer to. The way I see it, these aliens had great respect for the Native Americans. Overall, I think the Native Americans are very positively portrayed, but perhaps I look at the matter very different than you.

 

[exodus]

The cinematography is fine on it's own but as someone part Native American myself I find the underlying message in it racist and offensive.

In what way? The suggestion that Native Americans were inspired by aliens (or the other way around) might be somewhat controversial, but I wouldn't call it racist or offensive.

Saying that Native Americans had no culture or higher knowledge without alien influence is classic racism. It dates back as far as Eastern Europeans that colonized America calling the Indians "savages" because they didn't pray to a Christian God or approve the ways of the culture. It's sends the message that people of color were/are no more intelligent than a rodent and couldn't have achieved or created any of the civilzations and sciences without alien influences. Add to it the "Sky Spirits" are ghostly white and that adds a whole other new racist aspect to it.

It's controversial because it is racist.

 

[Roald]

Saying that Native Americans had no culture or higher knowledge without alien influence is classic racism. It dates back as far as Eastern Europeans that colonized America calling the Indians "savages" because they didn't pray to a Christian God or approve the ways of the culture. It's sends the message that people of color were/are no more intelligent than a rodent and couldn't have achieved or created any of the civilzations and sciences without alien influences. Add to it the "Sky Spirits" are ghostly white and that adds a whole other new racist aspect to it.

It's controversial because it is racist.

I understand your point. However, the episode is also very critical of the Eastern European conquerors. But again, I understand your critism, and I've really never looked at it that way.

 

[doubleohfive]

About the only thing I remember about this episode is that it was the first time we saw a bare ass on Trek ... and it was Chakotay's.

 

[Roald]

About the only thing I remember about this episode is that it was the first time we saw a bare ass on Trek ... and it was Chakotay's.

I think that honor goes to Patrick Stewart in 'Chain Of Command part II'

 

[exodus]

About the only thing I remember about this episode is that it was the first time we saw a bare ass on Trek ... and it was Chakotay's.

You forget "Naked Now".

Lots of frozen bare asses in that one.

 

[AuntKate]

About the only thing I remember about this episode is that it was the first time we saw a bare ass on Trek ... and it was Chakotay's.

Actually, it was RB's stand-in.

 

[propita]

About the only thing I remember about this episode is that it was the first time we saw a bare ass on Trek ... and it was Chakotay's.

Actually, it was RB's stand-in.

Pretty obvious, too. The general body shape was all wrong.

 

[teya]

Saying that Native Americans had no culture or higher knowledge without alien influence is classic racism. It dates back as far as Eastern Europeans that colonized America calling the Indians "savages" because they didn't pray to a Christian God or approve the ways of the culture. It's sends the message that people of color were/are no more intelligent than a rodent and couldn't have achieved or created any of the civilzations and sciences without alien influences. Add to it the "Sky Spirits" are ghostly white and that adds a whole other new racist aspect to it.

It's controversial because it is racist.

I understand your point. However, the episode is also very critical of the Eastern European conquerors. But again, I understand your critism, and I've really never looked at it that way.

Let me add to that. Subjugation of Native Americans under the Dept of War was continued into the 20th century in the US by the rationalization that Native Americans weren't "fully human."


Star Trek takes us back to that. We are less human than the rest of Earth's population.

 

[tvih]

I interpreted the "no language blah blah" stuff as it being some specific tribe rather than all Indians. But now that you mention it, I suppose it could have referred to all of them as well. I did find it odd why they had to be so "dumbed down" before the aliens taught them regardless of the population size. Especially not having a language made no sense, since they still were human, and any humans at that evolutionary stage definitely would have had language.

 

[seigezunt]

Saying that Native Americans had no culture or higher knowledge without alien influence is classic racism. It dates back as far as Eastern Europeans that colonized America calling the Indians "savages" because they didn't pray to a Christian God or approve the ways of the culture. It's sends the message that people of color were/are no more intelligent than a rodent and couldn't have achieved or created any of the civilzations and sciences without alien influences. Add to it the "Sky Spirits" are ghostly white and that adds a whole other new racist aspect to it.

It's controversial because it is racist.

I understand your point. However, the episode is also very critical of the Eastern European conquerors. But again, I understand your critism, and I've really never looked at it that way.

Let me add to that. Subjugation of Native Americans under the Dept of War was continued into the 20th century in the US by the rationalization that Native Americans weren't "fully human."


Star Trek takes us back to that. We are less human than the rest of Earth's population.

or more than human...hm...

No. I hear you. Crap episode, anyway.