Why did the cast age so much between TMP and WOK?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Commander Kielbasa, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Commander Kielbasa

    Commander Kielbasa Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    There's only a 3 year shooting difference, yet they easily look a good ten years older.
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  2. Dr. San Guinary

    Dr. San Guinary Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Because TMP was made 10 years after the end of the series, and you can't get around that.

    Besides, back then there was no CGI to erase age differences.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't actually see that much difference in the photos. Maybe what we see is filtered through our expectations. TMP pretended to be set just a few years after the original series, while TWOK embraced the passage of time. Or maybe the lighting, camera focus, and makeup in TMP were designed to downplay their aging while those in TWOK were designed to emphasize it more. You'd be amazed how much difference those things can make.
     
  4. Commander Kielbasa

    Commander Kielbasa Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I feel that the cast in TMP looked pretty much the same as they did in the series. Actually, I feel, Shatner looked better. He was leaner than he was overall in the series. Outside of the mustache, Doohan looked better overall. The only one who had any real signs of aging was Kelley, but then again, he was already close to 50 when the TV series premiered as it was.

    I feel the cast aged more in the three years between The Motion Picture and Wrath of Khan, than they did in the ten years between the ending of TOS and TMP.
     
  5. Commander Kielbasa

    Commander Kielbasa Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I do think the lighting and color grading had quite a bit to do with it. Nimoy looks roughly the same between the two films, but Shatner, Doohan, and McCoy especially look very much aged in WOK. I can easily buy TMP being 3-5 years after TOS ended, frankly. I also think Shatner putting back on weight contributed to it, and of course, Doohan gained a lot of weight between the two films. I know Shatner struggled with his weight even in TOS, but for whatever reason, the added weight aged him in WOK and the following films.

    I also think the costume design emphasized their aging. Maybe it was the color or cut, but I've always hated the II-VI costume design. I call it the Lobster Suit. They look like space versions of the Redcoats. Whereas the TMP uniforms always struck me as more futuristic and "sci fi."
     
  6. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    that pic of Bones is from VI.

    I think I read in the recent Return to Tomorrow book the make up people were trying to make them look as young as possible for TMP (as was set only a couple of years after TOS) but in TWOK which was set 10 years? on from TMP it became about playing their age
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
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  7. King Daniel Paid CBS Plant

    King Daniel Paid CBS Plant Admiral Admiral

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    TMP was set 2 and a half years after TOS, but made 10 years later. Much makeup etc was used to hide the actors' ageing. Wrath of Khan is set 15 years after TOS, so they dialled back and let them act closer to their real ages.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, it was set two and a half years after the end of the 5-year mission, which makes it more like four and a half years after TOS, by current assumptions.
     
  9. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    Because in-universe TMP is set in 2273 and TWOK is in 2285. That's a 12 year difference! :D
     
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  10. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd err on the side of thinking that makeup/lighting etc was used to 'deage' the actors as much as possible in TMP, rather than them all having aged in the short space between movies to TWOK. Realistically, TMP was meant to take place only a small handful of years after TOS, despite the larger 10y gap in real life. TWOK embraced the aging of the characters instead, meaning the makeup people didn't need to hide the actor's wrinkles anymore.
     
  11. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    Not just the makeup & lighting were attempting to make everyone seem closer to their TOS days. The costuming was doing it too, those tight tops & light colors etc... Compared to full blown double breasted coats over turtlenecks. I honestly don't see much difference between 1 & 2, but there sure was a huge effort to make them appear to be different
     
  12. KennyB

    KennyB Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    I never noticed much difference except for Shats hair........I really hated the Frankie Avalon/Bert Convy hair.
     
  13. Green

    Green Commander Red Shirt

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    They used a lot of make-up in TMP to hide their age. They didn't in TWOK.
     
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  14. Hippocrates Noah

    Hippocrates Noah Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, from what I understood Shatner was fully prepared to go into TMP makeup and try to play Kirk as younger for TWoK but didn't since aging became such a big theme in the script.
     
  15. Armus

    Armus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I always thought Shatner looked best in the TMP Admiral Uniform.[​IMG]
     
  16. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I think the Uniforms (And maybe Make Up) had an impact on the age of the various characters. The MP uniforms were not all that great.
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Difficult to say whether ST:TMP really was intended to take place "just after" TOS - 2.5 years is just our minimum estimate, while other cues exist for the Makers thinking in terms of "300 years after airdate sharp", thus preserving the decade-long gap.

    But aging is actually a big theme in ST2:TWoK, so of course Kirk has more silver in his wig and less opportunity show his hairy arms or clean-shaven chest. In ST:TMP, the heroes don't "age" as much as they temporarily "stray from their destined career path".

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There was either a worldwide shortage of Vaseline in 1982... or it's a deliberate move away from the 70s soft core porno misty filters in use by filmmakers. Kind of the strategically placed lens flares of their day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  19. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Commodore Commodore

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    No botox, and folks smoked a lot more (bad for the skin)
     
  20. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It did seem as if more time elapsed from 1966-1982--than from 1982 to the 2009 reboot.

    Spock seemed to age more in the first ...