Why are the novels less popular than the episodes/movies?

[trekmom]

My daughter is only 10, and I fought against the schools and the terrible "reading" program they had for her in 1st grade. She's in a GT school now, and they don't have to all read the same book. It's a miracle!

Mmmm. Have you heard of the concept of the "balanced reading program"?

When teaching students to read, teachers are supposed to do several things at the same time:

* provide a piece of text that is slightly above their reading age, to teach skills at point of need. Students might be grouped and use a common text so they can hear others attempt the reading aloud while they follow on, and vice versa.

* model reading by the teacher and other adults, either for enjoyment, enrichment or to explicitly point out decoding strategies.

* provide another piece of text that is slightly below their reading age, to improve confidence, expression and fluency. Such texts might also be used in written or oral comprehension activities.

* permit free choice of texts on topics of the child's interests, for recreational reading (ie. selecting from the school library). Even a book that is seemingly "too hard" will be easier to access if the student already knows the vocabulary of a known topic, or can interpret unknown blocks of text from accompanying photographs, captions, diagrams, labels, etc. For example, a dinosaur book can be equally popular with good and poor readers.

There are very valid reasons for students to "have to all read the same book".

I didn't go into details because I'm sure it would bore the general population. My daughter was bored silly in 1st and 2nd grade. At that age, she need to be taught how to think critically about a book and what the author was trying to say, not about "Curious George" or "the silent e means the vowel says its name". She was placed in a gifted school in 3rd grade. At the beginning of 3rd grade, she tested at a 6th grade reading level for comprehension and writing. At the end of 3rd grade, she tested at a 10th grade level in part to the flexibility of the system. Literature is taught in a group of 5 students, and they democratically choose from a list of about 200 books what they want to read. They then are assigned sections of the book to read before their next meeting. Each group member has to write 3 questions that the other kids have to answer about the text, and the the answer can't be "yes, no, true, or false". The teacher also volunteers a question or two. In this way, they were challenged with books they enjoyed. It became a game to try to stump her peers, so she looked deeper into the meaning of the book and the emotions of the characters.
I understand that the "balanced reading program" you referred to may work wonderfully for most students, but my (short) point was that my daughter isn't a normal student and is finally enjoying what she reads. Please don't take this as a "my kid is so special" brag-this is her reality, and my non-gifted 7 year old is thriving in her regular 1st grade class.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Please don't take this as a "my kid is so special" brag-this is her reality, and my non-gifted 7 year old is thriving in her regular 1st grade class.

Sure, but I hope you understand me leaping to the defence of teachers when you say "I fought against the schools and the terrible 'reading' program they had for her". Your judgments came off rather harshly without a context.

Just imagine a class of 30 students where the teacher must program individually for every child. Do they spend two minutes programming each day's lessons for each student? Ten minutes? Thirty minutes? And that's just reading, not the rest of English, nor all other subjects. There just aren't enough hours in the day to do that.

In my experience, once a student is an independent reader - earlier than their peers - they can (and do) extend and motivate themselves. They tend to skip right past early "chapter books" and so-called "Young Adult" novels and go straight to adult books. When it comes to class work, they are usually interested enough in the mechanics of reading to not object if daily "reading lessons" are beneath their abilities. They know that after school they can curl up with something more challenging. Of course, most teachers have extension activities they can give, but often they just need a sounding board. You can do that!

It's also worth noting that schools usually have other staff members who help motivate students about their reading, ie. the school's teacher-librarian. (Can you guess my occupation?) When you say that your daughter needed "to be taught how to think critically about a book and what the author was trying to say", this is something adults in your house can help her do, or you could sign her up for a moderated online kid's book club.

On this BBS, we have members who remember reading adult ST novels while still very young, sometimes not even realising that there were "young adult" ST titles available at the time. Independent readers don't require a lot of pushing.

 

[trekmom]

Please don't take this as a "my kid is so special" brag-this is her reality, and my non-gifted 7 year old is thriving in her regular 1st grade class.

Sure, but I hope you understand me leaping to the defence of teachers when you say "I fought against the schools and the terrible 'reading' program they had for her". Your judgments came off rather harshly without a context.

Just imagine a class of 30 students where the teacher must program individually for every child. Do they spend two minutes programming each day's lessons for each student? Ten minutes? Thirty minutes? And that's just reading, not the rest of English, nor all other subjects. There just aren't enough hours in the day to do that.

In my experience, once a student is an independent reader - earlier than their peers - they can (and do) extend and motivate themselves. They tend to skip right past early "chapter books" and so-called "Young Adult" novels and go straight to adult books. When it comes to class work, they are usually interested enough in the mechanics of reading to not object if daily "reading lessons" are beneath their abilities. They know that after school they can curl up with something more challenging. Of course, most teachers have extension activities they can give, but often they just need a sounding board. You can do that!

It's also worth noting that schools usually have other staff members who help motivate students about their reading, ie. the school's teacher-librarian. (Can you guess my occupation?) When you say that your daughter needed "to be taught how to think critically about a book and what the author was trying to say", this is something adults in your house can help her do, or you could sign her up for a moderated online kid's book club.

On this BBS, we have members who remember reading adult ST novels while still very young, sometimes not even realising that there were "young adult" ST titles available at the time. Independent readers don't require a lot of pushing.

This is how the conversation with the school went:

Teacher and principal gushed about my daughter's reading abilities and said she was reading several grades above. I then asked what the options were for her. Both of them looked at me like I was nuts. They said there are no options, there are no GT services in the district, they don't do testing, and that it would be too inconvenient to impose on another teacher to let her go to a 2nd or 3rd grade class for reading. They also said that the district doesn't allow children to skip grades. I asked what she would be doing while the other children were reading for 90 minutes a day, and the teacher jumped up and ran to the corner, and pointed to a comfy reading chair. They said she could just read by herself IN THE CORNER for 90 minutes a day. The teacher would even let her pick her own books out of the "big kid" section of the library, but there would be no tests, to discussion, or anything about what she was reading. That wasn't a good enough answer for me, so we moved. Would you be as critical if my child was had a disability and I had to advocate for the best education she could get? Geesh.

 

[tomswift2002]

Please don't take this as a "my kid is so special" brag-this is her reality, and my non-gifted 7 year old is thriving in her regular 1st grade class.

Sure, but I hope you understand me leaping to the defence of teachers when you say "I fought against the schools and the terrible 'reading' program they had for her". Your judgments came off rather harshly without a context.

Just imagine a class of 30 students where the teacher must program individually for every child. Do they spend two minutes programming each day's lessons for each student? Ten minutes? Thirty minutes? And that's just reading, not the rest of English, nor all other subjects. There just aren't enough hours in the day to do that.

In my experience, once a student is an independent reader - earlier than their peers - they can (and do) extend and motivate themselves. They tend to skip right past early "chapter books" and so-called "Young Adult" novels and go straight to adult books. When it comes to class work, they are usually interested enough in the mechanics of reading to not object if daily "reading lessons" are beneath their abilities. They know that after school they can curl up with something more challenging. Of course, most teachers have extension activities they can give, but often they just need a sounding board. You can do that!

It's also worth noting that schools usually have other staff members who help motivate students about their reading, ie. the school's teacher-librarian. (Can you guess my occupation?) When you say that your daughter needed "to be taught how to think critically about a book and what the author was trying to say", this is something adults in your house can help her do, or you could sign her up for a moderated online kid's book club.

On this BBS, we have members who remember reading adult ST novels while still very young, sometimes not even realising that there were "young adult" ST titles available at the time. Independent readers don't require a lot of pushing.

This is how the conversation with the school went:

Teacher and principal gushed about my daughter's reading abilities and said she was reading several grades above. I then asked what the options were for her. Both of them looked at me like I was nuts. They said there are no options, there are no GT services in the district, they don't do testing, and that it would be too inconvenient to impose on another teacher to let her go to a 2nd or 3rd grade class for reading. They also said that the district doesn't allow children to skip grades. I asked what she would be doing while the other children were reading for 90 minutes a day, and the teacher jumped up and ran to the corner, and pointed to a comfy reading chair. They said she could just read by herself IN THE CORNER for 90 minutes a day. The teacher would even let her pick her own books out of the "big kid" section of the library, but there would be no tests, to discussion, or anything about what she was reading. That wasn't a good enough answer for me, so we moved. Would you be as critical if my child was had a disability and I had to advocate for the best education she could get? Geesh.

This remind's me of a survey and test that was done here in the Ottawa region about 3 years ago where they split classes up into genders for reading time. In the girl's class the teachers had the girl's read more the school classics ("Little Women", "Great Gatsby"), and the boys were reading books that appealed more too boys (such as Frank Miller's 1980 Batman graphic novel), and I remember when the results came out it was surprising, but he boys were actually doing as good, and in some cases, better than hr girls.

And I remember when I was in school, I thought the system was broken, since aside from Shakespeare, all the other books the teachers had us read were as boring as all get out.

So even though I don't have any kids, I would have too side with the notion that the current system is broken and kids just aren't learning.

 

[Ktrek]

My 56 years of life I have observed that people in general are "lazy". They do as little as possible and often not even what is expected of them if they can get away with it. Do you really believe that modern Americans ( I can only speak for Americans) would choose to read a book over other forms of distraction? Granted there are family obligations that should be attended to like taking the kids to their soccer games etc. and those should hold a priority. When I was a teenager almost everyone I knew (young or old) read books. Now what kind of books was a matter of taste but almost everyone I knew was reading something. I preferred and still do sci-fi but I also read a LOT of classic lit and both my parents read and everyone else we knew read on a regular basis (and I' not talking about newspapers and magazines here). The internet, movies, video games, music etc. have brought in a lot of competition to reading that did not exist (or minimally with TV, movies and music) 40 years ago. Societies dependence on other forms of entertainment has changed drastically since I was kid and I think for the worse. I use the Internet and watch a lot of films and even listen to music and it has "robbed" me literally of time I would have spent reading. I have a love/hate relationship with technology because in many ways it is beneficial. If I want to know the weather or latest news Bam! It's right there in the internet for me. The side effect of all this tech is shorter attention spans. When I was younger I could read for four or five hours straight. Now I read a half an hour, check my email, look at my phone messages, put on some music, maybe get back to my book but will likely surf for so good reason to my favorite forums and post stupid posts like this one and wast 20 minutes I could have been reading and doings something really "productive" with my life and thus the cycle will continue again tomorrow until I finally say enough of this madness! At 56 I am beginning to see that a whole lot of things I thought were important in life are just a bunch of crapola. I just wished I had figured it out sooner and that I had more will power to actually make some positive changes. The one thing I think would be most beneficial would be to disconnect the Internet. That would be a HUGE beginning to actually finding my own humanity again but I just don't think I have the willpower to disconnect. Sad but true! Timothy Leary said in the 60s "Turn on, tune in, drop out" but I'm finding it really would be best to "Turn off, Tune out and drop in (to what's really important in life)"

Sorry that this has gone on too long but after reading through this entire thread and what's going on in my personal life lately this had to be said. We mostly waste our lives on frivolous and unimportant things. Especially us Americans and Westerners in general.

Kevin

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Societies dependence on other forms of entertainment has changed drastically since I was kid and I think for the worse. I use the Internet and watch a lot of films and even listen to music and it has "robbed" me literally of time I would have spent reading. I have a love/hate relationship with technology because in many ways it is beneficial. If I want to know the weather or latest news Bam! It's right there in the internet for me. The side effect of all this tech is shorter attention spans. When I was younger I could read for four or five hours straight. Now I read a half an hour, check my email, look at my phone messages, put on some music, maybe get back to my book but will likely surf for so good reason to my favorite forums and post stupid posts like this one and wast 20 minutes I could have been reading and doings something really "productive" with my life and thus the cycle will continue again tomorrow until I finally say enough of this madness!

Yesterday I was watching a really boring episode of Stargate and reading a novel (also Stargate, LOL) on my kindle at the same time. THE SAME TIME!!! Oh and I did pause the ep about 5 times to update the forum and look at facebook.

Unlike yourself though I was in heaven with this level of multi tasking. The older I get the more distracted I am and the more I enjoy doing several things at once.

At 56 I am beginning to see that a whole lot of things I thought were important in life are just a bunch of crapola. I just wished I had figured it out sooner and that I had more will power to actually make some positive changes. The one thing I think would be most beneficial would be to disconnect the Internet. That would be a HUGE beginning to actually finding my own humanity again but I just don't think I have the willpower to disconnect.

The internet is the greatest thing that ever happened to information, reading, socializing. I will never disconnect from it. I feel like it provides constant brain stimulus with all the input from such diverse sources. As to reading big novels, I've done my time. I've read all the classics. I'm over it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Would you be as critical if my child was had a disability and I had to advocate for the best education she could get? Geesh.

I was critical only because your original complaint about the school lacked essential context; that made your situation seem that you were the one reacting strangely. I'm in Australia; I'm no expert on US education systems. I've never encountered a school where Gifted & Talented students were not able to be accommodated or extended appropriately. Even if a teacher was lacking, at first, the teacher's supervisor or Principal would quickly rectify the problem, or at least attempt to improve things. Certainly, it can be a huge challenge when one or a few students are different enough to the norm that the teachers must work a little harder, or if a teacher is only new to the job. But we do what is needed for our high and low achievers, because it's our job.

If your school really did act that way, I am as disturbed by their comments as you.

My replies were only meant to give you a perspective on education that you might have missed. With your additional information, yes, it does seem that the school is at fault. But how was I to know without the context?

And yes, if your child had a disability and you were being given the same kind of runaround, I would be equally critical. Of the situation. I'm not laying blame on you nor the school. But something wasn't adding up.

 

[JarodRussell]

Have Jim Parsons read a Trek novel on an episode of the Big Bang Theory, and watch the Trek book sales skyrocket

The burning question: have sales for Green Lantern tee-shirts gone through the roof yet?

Good point

Why should BBT fans buy what they already have to begin with?

 

[trekmom]

Would you be as critical if my child was had a disability and I had to advocate for the best education she could get? Geesh.

I was critical only because your original complaint about the school lacked essential context; that made your situation seem that you were the one reacting strangely. I'm in Australia; I'm no expert on US education systems. I've never encountered a school where Gifted & Talented students were not able to be accommodated or extended appropriately. Even if a teacher was lacking, at first, the teacher's supervisor or Principal would quickly rectify the problem, or at least attempt to improve things. Certainly, it can be a huge challenge when one or a few students are different enough to the norm that the teachers must work a little harder, or if a teacher is only new to the job. But we do what is needed for our high and low achievers, because it's our job.

If your school really did act that way, I am as disturbed by their comments as you.

My replies were only meant to give you a perspective on education that you might have missed. With your additional information, yes, it does seem that the school is at fault. But how was I to know without the context?

And yes, if your child had a disability and you were being given the same kind of runaround, I would be equally critical. Of the situation. I'm not laying blame on you nor the school. But something wasn't adding up.

Thank you. And as I said, I left out alot of info because I didn't want to hikack the thread (sorry people!) and bore everyone to death!