Why are people saying the film has no messages/themes?

[empty]

Although there were no revolutionary or grand new ideas in the movie, I don't recall Trek ever bringing in completely new themes, just presenting them in a universal and cool way that appeals to all kinds of people. Trek, when well done, always popularized or pulled back into collective consciousness fundamental truths and messages that were unusual for their time.

I can think of at least a few grand themes coming out of ST 09:

- The power of friendship against all odds. Kirk and Spock grew up in seemingly oppositional circumstances, by nature have incredibly conflicting characters, and since this movie shows have very different childhoods than in the original timeline. But everyone could see how the events of this movie show the beginning of the greatest intergalactic friendship of all time.

- Don't be afraid of the unknown. Even though it may not seem logical, and not even emotionally sensible, we should not be afraid of what we do not know and cannot rationalize. We should embrace it, as Kirk did his destiny as a Starship Captain, or Spock did his destiny as a Starfleet officer (etc., etc.)

- bending the rules isn't always unjustified. Implying is not cheating, and sometimes it makes sense to win a no-win situation, even if it isn't won entirely fairly.


The funny thing is that all these messages apply to the film and to us as Trekkies equally, I think. The filmmakers chose to follow these themes when developing the new Trek, and those Trekkies who follow the messages are helping to revive a newly exciting franchise. We don't know where it's going, we don't know how much "our" rules will be bended; but coming from the most different circumstances we can peacefully debate and build international friendships around our common interest.

An optimism has returned to the big screen that I have been missing, and in the case of Trek as a franchise at the very least I am happy to believe that it is a justified optimism.

 

[cbspock]

Loyalty, friendship, standing up for ones principles, and believing in something bigger than ones self. The messages were all over the movie.

It is interesting to see fans whining about the movie having no underlying theme. Some Star Trek episodes didn't either, but the movie did have a couple of them. Another myth that was built up around Star Trek was that every episode had some message. It wasn't true in TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, etc. Yet Pike's challenge to Kirk at the bar is what the movie was about.

-Chris

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

^^ I am with both of them.

I, for one, experienced a lot of positive messages in the new movie.

 

[scottydog]

Let's not forget human resilience as a theme. Kirk was an emotionally wounded, brawling, asshole who overcame all that stuff and made something of himself. Not to mention what Spock has to overcome upon seeing his planet and 6 billion of his people destroyed.

 

[RAMA]

Of course there were themes, some of them were right out of previous ST movies. Responsibilty, duty, sacrifice for a greater cause, the power of friendship etc. There is also the mention of Starfleet being a peacekeeping fleet, a humanitarian one.

What most people aren't mentioning is that Abrams specifically wanted to develop the characters from scratch. He said in interviews he didn't get into ST because he didn't "find a way in". In Star Wars, he watched Luke develop from farm boy to hero, but ST characters were developed from word go. So much like in his show Lost, he filled in the blanks for the characters. Now there is more (not less)character development, and I think audiences of non-trekkers are loving it.

RAMA

 

[goran'agar]

Karma, its the one constant theme throughout the film.

The film portrays that there is an element of choice and volition....and this is what results in the destruction of the kelvin and the death of George Kirk
Now if u look at the timeline as a mathematical equation, it has just been disturbed and is now unequal as a result of Nero's entry...
Despite Nero's actions, there are somethings u cannot alter...It is in James T Kirk's power to somehow rise up through the ranks no matter what......it is karmic fate that the Enterprise crew come together.....it is part of Pike's destiny that he be physically disabled in someway at that point in his life (in the original series he is injured saving a bunch of cadets and in this film he is injured putting himself on the line for a ship full of newly graduated cadets) .....etc etc

But there are certain elements that need to happen for the equation to be balanced......Kirk and Spock are inextricably linked to eachother.....Kirk's father dies and the karmic recompense is that Spock's mother dies....two characters that lived till their old age in the original timeline..
Romulus is destroyed in the original time line while Vulcan is destroyed in the new timeline - which means that one of the sisters' will continue to exist in each timeline.

 

[God Magnus]

My guess would be that people are so wowed by the gee whiz visuals and pew pew boom stuff that they're not "processing" the themes until way after their reviews are written. Personally I thought the themes of destiny, courage, friendship and optimism in the face of hopelessness all ever-present and powerful in this film. These are themes that resonated with me during the course of my first viewing and were still at the forefront of my mind during my second viewing.

I remember as kid watching "ST III" and just thinking "Oh god, Enterprise is gone, they're stuck on this planet that's going to hell - what do they DO?!" and Kirk found a way. In this film we get horrific tragedy and even in the face of that they persevered and won. To the kid in me who grew up watching Kirk take the "no win scenario" and kick it to the curb, I was thrilled. JJ did indeed help make optimism "cool again" for this fan!

 

[Lokhtar]

If those are Star Trek themes, than Star Wars had them too (and X-Men, and every other action flick of all time) and there is nothing to separate that and Star Trek.

There was nothing that pushed the boundaries like real Star Trek did. No great ideas. Nothing to inspire anyone.

 

[RAMA]

If those are Star Trek themes, than Star Wars had them too (and X-Men, and every other action flick of all time) and there is nothing to separate that and Star Trek.

There was nothing that pushed the boundaries like real Star Trek did. No great ideas. Nothing to inspire anyone.

Wrong on all counts.

Firstly, ST episodes and movies did not have "great ideas" in every show. ST II didn't. Sometimes its enough that they convey the overall theme of ST: positive future. SW is fairly "clean" in its universe buts it's about a basic story..good vs evil in the most simplistic way possible. ST, including the new movie, often relies on shades of gray. Nero was not an evil baddie in the way Vader was. Compare ST 2009 with most SF these days. Is it dark? Nihilistic? Gritty? No. The trailer for Terminator Salvation shown before ST will convey that right away.

 

[Lokhtar]

Nero was not an evil baddie in the way Vader was? LOL, are you serious?

 

[gypsyaly]

I agree with you in terms of messages of the movie; I hadn't thought of those messages. I found different ones though; To me, I got out of it that bad things happen; things that really are nobody's fault. Many people die; but if you hold on to that anger it will just destroy you and everybody else in the end. You have to grieve and then let it go; Spock stayed on the planet for awhile, after watching Vulcan destroyed, but by the end, he was back, moving on with his life, and ready to make a new start.

 

[RAMA]

Nero was not an evil baddie in the way Vader was? LOL, are you serious?

Nero was a damaged man, Vader was basically a machine with powers...dressed in all black no less. I suppose you'd have to read Countdown to get a full view of the Nero character.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

I agree with you in terms of messages of the movie; I hadn't thought of those messages. I found different ones though; To me, I got out of it that bad things happen; things that really are nobody's fault. Many people die; but if you hold on to that anger it will just destroy you and everybody else in the end. You have to grieve and then let it go; Spock stayed on the planet for awhile, after watching Vulcan destroyed, but by the end, he was back, moving on with his life, and ready to make a new start.

THAT is excellent. It occurs to me now that Nero went for the path of vengeance, Spock of course, chose to turn his destroyed planet into a positive and start a colony.

RAMA

 

[Lokhtar]

Vader was not a damaged man? Have you watched the movies? Sure, it was a badly written damaged man, but let's see: death of a wife blamed on someone else causes him to do X. Sound familiar? At least Vader had the moral compass to regret it later.

 

[bismarck_1892]

Although there were no revolutionary or grand new ideas in the movie, I don't recall Trek ever bringing in completely new themes, just presenting them in a universal and cool way that appeals to all kinds of people. Trek, when well done, always popularized or pulled back into collective consciousness fundamental truths and messages that were unusual for their time.

I can think of at least a few grand themes coming out of ST 09:

- The power of friendship against all odds. Kirk and Spock grew up in seemingly oppositional circumstances, by nature have incredibly conflicting characters, and since this movie shows have very different childhoods than in the original timeline. But everyone could see how the events of this movie show the beginning of the greatest intergalactic friendship of all time.

- Don't be afraid of the unknown. Even though it may not seem logical, and not even emotionally sensible, we should not be afraid of what we do not know and cannot rationalize. We should embrace it, as Kirk did his destiny as a Starship Captain, or Spock did his destiny as a Starfleet officer (etc., etc.)

- bending the rules isn't always unjustified. Implying is not cheating, and sometimes it makes sense to win a no-win situation, even if it isn't won entirely fairly.


The funny thing is that all these messages apply to the film and to us as Trekkies equally, I think. The filmmakers chose to follow these themes when developing the new Trek, and those Trekkies who follow the messages are helping to revive a newly exciting franchise. We don't know where it's going, we don't know how much "our" rules will be bended; but coming from the most different circumstances we can peacefully debate and build international friendships around our common interest.

An optimism has returned to the big screen that I have been missing, and in the case of Trek as a franchise at the very least I am happy to believe that it is a justified optimism.

One can drump those messages and/or themes with any movie. This one was simply not topical. A vanilla shoot-em up.

 

[Lokhtar]

One can drump those messages and/or themes with any movie. This one was simply not topical. A vanilla shoot-em up.

Exactly. I could name ten movies in the last year with those themes. There wasn't anything that made Trek different (and in my view - special) in this movie.

 

[Small White Car]

One can drump those messages and/or themes with any movie. This one was simply not topical. A vanilla shoot-em up.

Exactly. I could name ten movies in the last year with those themes. There wasn't anything that made Trek different (and in my view - special) in this movie.

I disagree. I read a review that pointed out how unusal it is for a summer blockbuster to stress public service and joining the establishment as heroic traits.

When Stat Trek first aired, people trusted the government. These days? How many summer blockbusters focus on the hero JOINING the military or police? Most of them are about loners.

Now,

1) I understand that Kirk is rebelious. The point is that the film's view is that joining Starfleet is what makes him better. And he seems to agree, despite his rule bending.

2) I'm not talking about serious movies and dramas. I'm talking about shoot-'em-up summer blockbusters. Most of those are about the lone hero. The theme of 'join the governmet and you'll be a better person' is pretty rare in these films.

 

[Lokhtar]

If that is what Trek has fallen to, then it is worse than even I thought.

 

[Lumen]

The film was all about Kirk and Spock -- how the two of them were always going to be great, towering figures in Starfleet, and had the potential to accomplish so much together, no matter how much they weren't aware of it. It seems a little cheap to me to reduce the relationship we saw in the film to just the theme of "destiny".

And while reductionism certainly is popular, it isn't every film that we have characters like Kirk and Spock.

 

[Starbreaker]

I didn't want to go into this learning any life lessons. I just wanted to have fun!