Who exactly was the Nemesis?

[Guy Gardener]

Classically I was always lead to believe that a Nemesis was a "personification of vengeance made manifest". And after seeing Nemesis again recently... I wouldn't subscribble anyone in that pic with so much clout.

Shinzon? At deaths door needed to eat Picard. They'd never even met. The Personification of desperation, jealously and possibly the munchies? But vengeance? Pishaw!

B4? Dupe and simpleton but eventually an ark. Hardly a public menace.

The Romulans? Practically wallpaper who could have been switched out with any other freshly invented species fro this rhomp.

The Remans? Don't get me started.

Frankly if there wasn't a Nemesis, then why call it Nemesis? maybe this movie would have fared better if the title had reflected in the slightest some, if any, the briefest crumb of any part of the story?

O.

Regret. Second guessing. Doubt. The road not taken? Was "if" or "if only" the true Nemesis of this tale of raped innocence(talking about shinzon the person, not what Shinzon did.)? That girly carp also tracks with Data and B4 if only about a lack of potential more than being railroaded. O crap. That's a theme. Finding story devices in... Thought put into... Unredeemible... Claptrap!

So Like I was trying to say, what would it have been more sensible to call the tenth movie that it was in anyway descriptive of the feature itself?

And, second question, who should in your mind have lived up to the the moniker "Nemesis" of the Enterprise, or Nemesis of Picard? Because even raping Troi didn't slot Shinzon into even the top 30 TNG Villains in my mind.

 

[Kegek]

The simple truth is, they didn't mean the word in the classical Greek sense.

They meant it in the modern English sense, which is this: 'Fancy word for the bad guy.'

As such, the nemesis was indeed Shinzon. Not the deepest answer, but it's not a deep movie...

 

[Therin of Andor]

Guy Gardener said:
Classically I was always lead to believe that a Nemesis was a "personification of vengeance made manifest".

Shinzon - a downtrodden, abandoned, exiled stooge - certainly was a "personification of vengeance made manifest" when he eliminated the Romulan Senate in such a grisly way, and then set out to prove that he, Shinzon (and a group of loyal Remans), could destroy Earth, something the Romulan Senate had always failed to achieve.

 

[Aldo]

John Logan.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Rick Berman.

 

[Hambone]

Frank Grimes.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

 

[Turd Ferguson]

John Logan & Rick Berman & Brent Spiner & Stuart Baird.

Hm.

I guess the movie should've been called Star Trek: Nemeses

Or Nemesises. Or Nemesii. I can never remember the plural form

 

[Thomas E. Johnson]

I still can't understand why so many hate this movie. I think it's one of the best Star Trek films ever.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

My next-door neighbor, a TOS Trekker, says the same.

 

[Roshi]

[Casanova Frankenstein]it's nemeses[/Casanova Frankenstein]

 

[new_mercury]

In the original version it was Khan.......... in the re-make it was supposed to be Shinzon.....

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Somehow, I just can't see Picard yelling...
"SHINZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!"

 

[CaptainStoner]

Thomas E. Johnson said:
I still can't understand why so many hate this movie. I think it's one of the best Star Trek films ever.

I think its a good one too on the whole. I like "Insurrection" better, even though it slows down here and there, I thought that one had the strongest, purest Next Gen feel to it, and they were really in their stride in their film series at that point.
The change of Directors I think was a mistake. When you hear some of the cast talk about him, it sounds like he kind of broke up the party to some extent. He kept mispronouncing Levar Burtons name through the entire shoot, I mean come on! What a first rate jerk. They should have either stuck with Frakes, or had one of the other cast, probably Burton, direct, and can you imagine what a better film that would have been?
It really pisses me off too, because Nemesis had such an obvious tie in to the next film with B4, basically mirroring the Spock story arc from 3 to 4. Data and Worf in San Francisco...Troi talking to the whales....it would have been epic...but seriously, I was truly surprised when another film didn't follow.
Although Nemesis took a nose dive in box office numbers, if you add up the Next Gen films, with Nemesis included its still well over +100 million dollars. I think they more than hedged their bets on making another, and that it was a short sighted decision given the staying power of Star Trek. You don't just look at the receipts of one film in a highly successful series. I'm sure the DVD of Nemesis has made some good bread, too, over time.
Maybe we need to start another write-in, before it's too late. We want to see Riker (or Troi isn't it?) on his new bridge, we want to see a Flowers for Algernon story with Data/B4. We want to see that ugly-ass Enterprise-E blown up, (maybe that's just me) and Wesley run through early in the film by a pissed off Klingon!
OH, that would be sweet would it not? I think Wil Wheaton would do it. As long as he got to do something cool beforehand...
Later on folks ~

 

[FalTorPan]

I think the working title of the film was Star Trek: Enema, but it was changed after deleting one of the scenes that would have given the film an R rating... and caused us to never think of Worf in the same way.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

^Having him in a prune juice drinking contest wouldn't work the same way?

 

[ancient]

The Nemesis was apparently a clone of Dr. Evil who got lost and ended up in a Star Trek movie.

 

[CoveTom]

Was the nemesis...

Shinzon?
B4?
The Romulans?
The Remans?
Picard Himself?
Michael Knight?
Mrs. Beasley?
Chief?

(Waiting to see if anyone gets this...)

 

[Aldo]

McCloud!

 

[CoveTom]

LOL! At least one fellow MSTie here!