Where do we go from here?

[Mr Awe]

The only difference is you don't like the Timeless Child revelations, or you don't like Chibnall or Whittaker. Or any combination of the three. There's nothing about the Timeless Child that "blows up the show's premise" anymore than any one of other revelations and retcons in the show's fifty year history.

No, I didn't like these revelations. I grew up watching the classic series. I didn't start with Hartnell, but I did see him early in my DW experience. It felt like we watched the Doctor learn how to become the Doctor. He didn't start out being the hero or even being able to control the TARDIS. But, he got the hang of both.

Chibnall's revelations undo that. Sure, I get it, they can do a hand wave and make it so they erased Hartnell's Doctor's memories and he had to learn all over. But, that's not the same. At least for me.

I also didn't like how these revelations were made. One issue I've had with Chibnall's run is the relative lack of agency on the part of Whitaker's Doctor. Well, here we had the Master destroy Gallifrey without the Doctor being able to do anything. And then he literally told her the revelations as she was restrained. She played a passive role in the huge revelations.

So, I agree, it's a personal, subjective thing about how much you like or dislike these revelations. I don't like them and for good reasons!

 

[Kirk Prime]

The only difference is you don't like the Timeless Child revelations, or you don't like Chibnall or Whittaker. Or any combination of the three. There's nothing about the Timeless Child that "blows up the show's premise" anymore than any one of other revelations and retcons in the show's fifty year history.

There is a level of degree though. Chibnall didn't add to the canon--he blew it up. He contradicted 50 plus years of story for his own ego. It's a different franchise now--it's nonsensical.

You're right that I don't like the changes in recent years, and judging by the ratings torpedo, many others agree. It's unfortunate such a great franchise fell so far so fast.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I would like Jodie to stay on under a different producer, just because we haven't seen that yet in Modern Who, and because I'm extremely not a fan of Chibnall's style. Were that I knew who should take over, though. I think part of the issue with this era that the RTD-to-Moffat transition escaped was that it was pretty obvious for a long time that Moffat would be the ideal successor to RTD; he had experience running TV shows, and his episodes each year were always highly-praised and well-liked (I feel like people were anticipating Moffat as the heir-apparent after, like, "The Girl in the Fireplace"). There wasn't a similar all-star writer during the Moffat-era.

Agreed. Chibnall was at a distinct disadvantage that way. Honestly, if they wanted to pick a good writer from the Moffat era, I would have gone with Toby Whithouse. I think he had a pretty solid collection of episodes on his resume-- "The Vampires of Venice," "The God Complex," "A Town Called Mercy," "Under the Lake," "Before the Flood," "The Lie of the Land." Nothing as flashy as Moffat's early episodes but solid executions of the Doctor Who formula.

IIRC, they did offer the showrunner position to Whithouse but he turned it down. I don't think that the BBC offers enough money for most people to put up with all of the aggravation that comes with being Doctor Who showrunner. If they're not willing to open their pocketbook and pay one guy enough to make it worth their while, then maybe they need to start poaching writers from Big Finish and pair them up with seasoned producers to handle the nuts & bolts of TV production.

I don't know that I want Whittaker or Chibnall to leave right now. I wouldn't mind seeing Whittaker under a different producer to see if she can up her game by showing us a different side to her Doctor. But the stuff with the Division & the Timeless Child are dangling threads that I would rather see Chibnall resolve if he can. The biggest problem is the show losing its sense of fun. The show had an energetic family appeal during the RTD & Moffat eras. If Chibnall could just give us a few more sprinkles of "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship" each episode, I think it would go a long way towards improving the series.

The people saying that it needs a rest are totally missing the obvious. The 2 lowest rated seasons were the ones that came immediately after a 1 year hiatus. That's what's damaging the show's ratings. Take it away for long enough and people get out of the habit of watching it. Even if you can't manage a full 10 episodes per year (which seems pretty pathetic if you can't since RTD did 14 episodes per year for 4 years straight, not even counting the spinoffs), you need to do a special every 4-6 months to keep the show present in people's minds.

You already have two of your campions leaving so that might open the door up for Captain Jack as a regular or something like that.

I don't know that I'd like Jack as a regular at this point but they may need to do something drastic like that to get the lapsed fans back.

One thing's for certain - the complaint of "too many companions" doesn't hold up when shows like "Sliders" made having ensembles of four work.

The number of cast members is dependent on making sure that you properly balance them with each other. The only time that 3 companions worked was during the early Hartnell years with Ian, Barbara, & Susan/Vicky. And it worked because they were properly balanced. Ian & Barbara had a strong relationship with each other and Susan/Vicky was the kid who got in trouble and got captured. Other instances of 3 companions didn't work. Ben/Polly/Jamie didn't work because Ben & Jamie were both rough & tumble action guys, so there was no need for both of them. Adric/Nyssa/Tegan didn't work because Adric & Nyssa were both quiet science nerds.

Similarly, is there any reason why we need both Ryan & Yaz? Couldn't they have been rolled together into a single character? Also, because we were also starting with a new Doctor, it meant that she got less development because there were so many companions to establish at the same time. And it's even more of a missed opportunity because, although they were different people, they all came from the same place, which limited how different their perspectives could be. I think maybe what they should have done was just started Season 11 with Graham & Ryan and then added Yaz halfway through in "Demons of the Punjab" but had her actually be a woman from 1947 India. It scratches my desire for companions who are (1) not from the present, (2) not from the U.K., and (3) added mid-season to make it feel like middle season episodes can have actual consequences to the regular status quo.

It would like saying Lex Luthor was really a Kryptonian all along. Or that Krypton never exploded. Might make an interesting alternate story, but not in the main continuity.

I see what you did there. As flawed as Superman Returns & Man of Steel are, we definitely dodged a bullet by not getting the J.J. Abrams script.

 

[dupersuper]

Maybe I'm missing something, but the averages don't seem that much lower...

Any way, my other vote: bring back Xmas specials.

 

[Nightowl1701]

With the BBC itself on the verge of getting the plug pulled on it, I sadly think the reboot has come to the end of the line. Co-production deals or not, the network's not getting its money's worth anymore. And if they truly can't get somebody else who wants to be showrunner (for whatever low pay they're offering), then it's Game Over anyway regardless of ratings. So Chibnall's going to have to squeeze whatever he had in mind into this last season, then hopefully leave the show in a place where somebody else can pick up the pieces somewhere down the line.

 

[Mr Awe]

I think a rest is likely whenever the current contracts are up. It's the declining ratings and the fact that it's hard to get people to want to run the show. Similar combination ended the Classic series. Although, I think one benefit we have now is that the higher ups in the BBC aren't anti-DW unlike in the 80s.

Give the show a rest. Hopefully not 17 years. Come back when they've got a new team in place who are excited to tackle bringing it back. The view public will become curious about it again and hopefully it starts another good run!

 

[Gov Kodos]

In all honesty, yes, the execution could have been better, at least to the extent they could have presented things better than what was essentially a narrated Wiki article like we got in the episode. But there was nothing wrong with the idea itself, and it certainly does not destroy fifty years of continuity and canon. Hell, Doctor Who never really had continuity or canon to begin with. Or to quote Terrance Dicks, "continuity is only whatever I can remember."

Hartnel's time hasn't gone anywhere and the show can change the Doctor's history yet again. Probably will at some point in the future to who knows what.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I think a rest is likely whenever the current contracts are up. It's the declining ratings and the fact that it's hard to get people to want to run the show. Similar combination ended the Classic series. Although, I think one benefit we have now is that the higher ups in the BBC aren't anti-DW unlike in the 80s.

Give the show a rest. Hopefully not 17 years. Come back when they've got a new team in place who are excited to tackle bringing it back. The view public will become curious about it again and hopefully it starts another good run!

As long as it doesn't come back with another white male. Speaking as a white male, I've had enough white male Doctors.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

As long as it doesn't come back with another white male. Speaking as a white male, I've had enough white male Doctors.

Speaking as a white male, I agree. We've had a lot of great white male Doctors, but it's high time for everyone else to be represented.

 

[The Wormhole]

Regardless if the next Doctor is male or female, they really should go with someone non-white.

 

[Captrek]

The next doctor should be Purple. There aren’t enough purple people on TV. Probably because that one-eyed, one-horned, flying monster ate them all.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The next doctor should be Purple. There aren’t enough purple people on TV. Probably because that one-eyed, one-horned, flying monster ate them all.

...just as long as it's not David Tennant.

 

[thribs]

We need a ginger Doctor next. My pick is Damian Lewis. Then we could do the Merlin story they hinted in Battlefield

 

[publiusr]

The guy who played Dr Moon at the Library would be good.

Something I was thinking of...how many times was the Doctor mind wiped? Pertwee came in rather abruptly.

No videotape due to the strike, so it was all film...which gave it a different vibe...a different look...perhaps as a dream? Maybe Sean could come in briefly...something about the third regin’ being different?

 

[Lonemagpie]

Idris Elba... That's who I want in there.

 

[worf1965]

One thing that I haven't seen discussed here is the continued overemphasis on the same old villains - the Daleks, the Cyberrmen and the Master. I liked Series 12 but I did not like the reappearance of the Master and the Cybermen. I think many are generally tired of the same old, same old. There have to be people out there with new, creative ideas.

While Series 11 was generally weaker, what I did like was all the different villains. Maybe some of the other Classic villains could be brought back. But keep bringing us some new ones. For me, one of the things I really liked aboutthe 4th and the 5th doctors was how they did not constantly go back to these villains. Sure they appeared here and there but the sporadic appearances made those moments more meaningful.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Pertwee came in rather abruptly.

No videotape due to the strike, so it was all film...which gave it a different vibe...a different look...perhaps as a dream? Maybe Sean could come in briefly...something about the third regin’ being different?

Sean has always said he'd never play the role his father did. Not even as a guest appearance.

 

[publiusr]

That is his right of course.
Of all the new monsters, the Weeping Angels are a favorite...I might have them from an alternate reality that also spawned the Monks and the Quantum Shade... a hellscape