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When was new better?

Warped9

Admiral
Admiral
This subject could go almost anywhere such as TV & Media or even Miscellaneous, but I'm trying it here because SF & F is often where the most lively debates are regarding this subject.

Whenever a new film or television series debuts, and even long before it even arrives, there's a lot of reaction on both sides regarding the merits of changes made. The focus often falls upon the negative reactions to changes and sometimes the inevitable acceptance.

So here's a chance to share what you thought was a positive change even if in the beginning you might have resisted. We could also discuss those instances where you still don't accept what was changed.


Starting off I recall my initial resistance to the new batmoble in Batman Begins, what has become widely known as the Tumbler. I thought it looked ridiculous. It wasn't until I actually saw it on the screen in action that I did a near complete reversal and accepted that it made much more sense as a working batmobile than an elaborately over styled hotrod. I now accept the all black look of live-action Batman onscreen, but there I'm still resistant to the heavily textured rubber look. Batman is mortal with no superhuman abilities, particularly strength, and so it beggars my imagination that a real person, no matter how strong, could function as he needs to in such an outfit. On Spider-Man it works because Spidey is endowed with far beyond normal strength and so his costume shouldn't be a hindrance. That said after watching a fan made film called Batman: Dead End from some years ago I still would like to see a project that utilized a more faithful version of Batman's costume. It could even be made a touch more plausible by having the film as a period piece.

I admit that I presently can't accept the new rubber look intended the Man Of Steel. A heavy looking outfit certainly wouldn't be a hindrance to someone of Superman's strength, but it also looks like it's somehow offering him some extra protection which really doesn't make much sense to me. It's possible also that we are only seeing this in still shots and thus the suppleness of the material isn't being conveyed. And so my real resistance to the new costume is its appearance, its design. It strays too far from the general template and colour balance of the long standing design. It's overdone.

One change I will never accept was Abrams' redesign of the TOS Enterprise. On one hand this isn't actually the original ship since the timeline is all screwed up and it's an alternate continuity/universe, whatever. On that basis there could have been any number of ways to modify/redesign the original concept to something more updated yet still interesting. But the JJprise IMO just looks bad because there is no visual balance, no integrity and no artistry to it. It violates decent aesthetics. It looks distorted. I'll thus leave my remarks regarding elements of ST09 on that point because there is simply far too much else I dislike about the film.

I haven't yet seen Green Lantern (I'm waiting for the rental), but I can't say I'm crazy about the cgi costume. I might change my opinion upon seeing the film, but until then it just looks too unreal (yeah, I know, it's a comic) and too over textured.

I was initially somewhat resitant to Daniel Craig as Bond and retaining Judi Dench as M when Casino Royale was supposed to be a restart. Yet as soon as the film got going I found myself really liking Craig as 007 and accepted that in this restart there was no reason M couldn't be a woman and it had nothing to do with the previous films. Besides she was the only thing worth salvaging from the Brosnan films. :lol:

Quite awhile ago I saw photos of a modeller's redesign of the submarine Seaview from Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea. For fans of the original film and series the Seaview is as iconic as the TOS Enterprise, and yet this modeller did such an outstanding job that I can't recall any negative reaction to his work and near everyone seemed convinced that this design would be perfectly at home in an updated version of the property.

Anyone else?
 
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I'm stunned that you don't like the JJprise and Superman's new costume, or that you resist any changes to properties you have a nostalgic loyalty to before you see the film. This thread is already a revelation for sharing information I've heard 900 times before in a new location. Maybe I should try storing my broken records on a new shelf.
 
I'm stunned that you don't like the JJprise and Superman's new costume, or that you resist any changes to properties you have a nostalgic loyalty to before you see the film. This thread is already a revelation for sharing information I've heard 900 times before but in a new location.
Har har. The idea was to talk about supposed resistance to change and instances where one changed their minds after initial resistance. I offered up only a few examples to get the conversation going, but obviously there are a lot more out there. My initial post also offers up an example of accepting something new right off. I also have to add that I was cynical upon seeing preproduction concepts for Spider-man's costume for Raimi's first film, but I just loved what we eventually got.
 
I'm one of those who absolutely LOVES all those classic scifi and superhero designs, but also LOVES seeing them updated and modernized. And frankly I do think some of these designs need to be updated, and that some of the older ones only work within the context of the time they were created (I may love those retro spaceships in the Buck Rogers serials, but clearly they just wouldn't work on movie screens today-- and the same goes for a great deal of designs that scifi fans love).

And yeah, like most fans I cringed the first time I saw that weird, fish-eyed view of the new E too, but I thought both the movie and that awesome Quantum FX model proved that the design does indeed work.

Actually I'm kind of surprised that scifi fans aren't more open to changes than they are. Being so rigid all the time and not wanting anything to ever change just doesn't really seem consistent with the spirit of the genre-- which is all about new experiences and fresh, bold ideas.

It just seems strange to me.
 
I was against Craig as Bond, not because he was blond or because he was 'ugly' but he just didn't really seem all that Bond-esque to me. I thought he wouldn't be accepted by the cinema-going public. How wrong I was. And he's my second-fave after Connery, passing Brosnan, who I liked a lot.

I've never had a problem with any of the changes of costume for Superman, Batman, Spider-man etc in their live-action adaptations. What works in a film doesn't always work onscreen and I'm happy enough for movie-makers to make changes. And I like the JJ-ENT.
 
What's the name of the word for things not being the same always? There must be a word for it. The thing that lets you know time is happening?

Anyway, I agree with what Myk said. It sounds tautological, but the handy thing about tautologies is that they're self-evidently true: change sucks if it sucks.
 
Actually I'm kind of surprised that scifi fans aren't more open to changes than they are. Being so rigid all the time and not wanting anything to ever change just doesn't really seem consistent with the spirit of the genre-- which is all about new experiences and fresh, bold ideas.

It just seems strange to me.
Well as a science fiction fan I'm also aware of the old notion that many SF fans are often suspicious of changes for changes sake. Although we can be fascinated with new ideas we can also be highly cynical. We can be dubious of new technologies and gadgets until they prove their worth. Perhaps it seems like a paradox to others, but there it is.
 
The topic question is preposterous - or, as one Buddhist master once said, "the question does not fit the case."

At any given moment something is new because everything changes. People respond to that change with delight or disappointment or excitement or fear and anger.

To me, change is often for the better right now. That answer is as valid as any other - hell, it's more in line with reality than any position that tries to fix the answer at some point in the past (most often the childhood or youth of the respondent).
 
In essence we're not talking about fact, but about opinion. A given fact when it comes to art and entertainment is going to be highly subjective.

Hell, when it comes to sites and forums like these we're exposed to this "fact" all the time. :lol:
 
Change is good when it makes things better and bad when it makes things worse! :)

Good examples: Captain America's costume in the recent movie; Ron Moore ignoring practically everything about the original BSG; JJ Abrams rewriting Uhura and Kirk for Trek XI (in Kirk's case, that's assuming it's in the service of giving him a character arc, which we will see in the next movie); and The Clone Wars rewriting the PT to delete most of the stupidest stuff.

So there are actually tons of examples of canon violations (in fact or in spirit) that were all for the best. But none of this means it's okay for Lucas to frak up that scene in that movie that everyone knows what I'm talking about, right? Because that definitely makes things worse.
I was against Craig as Bond, not because he was blond or because he was 'ugly' but he just didn't really seem all that Bond-esque to me. I thought he wouldn't be accepted by the cinema-going public. How wrong I was. And he's my second-fave after Connery, passing Brosnan, who I liked a lot.

This is a good example of a change that doesn't matter anyway because I've never cared about James Bond. They could make him a transvestite Eskimo midget and I wouldn't mind in the least. :)
 
I think it is a question of attachment. If you are really attached to the original designs then there is a chance you may not like the new designs.

But all of this is subjective anyway. I didn't care for the tumbler until I saw it on the big screen too. I didn't care for how they changed Batman's cape in the Dark Night movie. It just hangs there like a woolen blanket they dyed black.

Other than that I am fine with all of the changes you mentioned.

I don't think the new Superman suit looks rubbery or padded for extra protection. To me it looks more textured for the high definition modern filming now demands.
 
Actually I'm kind of surprised that scifi fans aren't more open to changes than they are. Being so rigid all the time and not wanting anything to ever change just doesn't really seem consistent with the spirit of the genre-- which is all about new experiences and fresh, bold ideas.

It just seems strange to me.
Well as a science fiction fan I'm also aware of the old notion that many SF fans are often suspicious of changes for changes sake. Although we can be fascinated with new ideas we can also be highly cynical. We can be dubious of new technologies and gadgets until they prove their worth. Perhaps it seems like a paradox to others, but there it is.

Or suspicious of change aimed at trying to reach a wider audience which could be a good thing but rarely is.
 
At any given moment something is new because everything changes. People respond to that change with delight or disappointment or excitement or fear and anger.

You react to any given moment with with delight or disappointment or excitement or fear and anger? Wow you must be tired. I generally react obliviously to most things.
 
At any given moment something is new because everything changes. People respond to that change with delight or disappointment or excitement or fear and anger.

You react to any given moment with with delight or disappointment or excitement or fear and anger? Wow you must be tired. I generally react obliviously to most things.

That's a shame. Certainly always being open to present experience is the ideal, anyway.

But yeah, I run on autopilot as much as anyone I know.

And you know what often wakes me up?

Something changing.
 
Well as a science fiction fan I'm also aware of the old notion that many SF fans are often suspicious of changes for changes sake. Although we can be fascinated with new ideas we can also be highly cynical. We can be dubious of new technologies and gadgets until they prove their worth. Perhaps it seems like a paradox to others, but there it is.
Change and innovation are not the same thing. I love new ideas and concepts-- assuming they are good. Firefly is the perfect example of a new concept in Space Opera that worked. But changing something just for the sake of fashion, or making it appeal to the lowest common denominator? Not a good thing. If you want to make a loud, bombastic Space Opera for generation ADD, make up something new-- don't screw up Star Trek.

As for examples of changes that were good: I'm pretty much against recasting iconic roles as a matter of principle, but I must say that they did a really good job of that in nuTrek. Unfortunately, the movie itself was just an Asylum flick with a budget, so it didn't matter. I'm also rather prejudiced against reboots and re-imaginings, but Scooby Doo: Mystery Incorporated, while flawed, was done very well indeed.
 
The Star Trek one always remains a missed opportunity for me. I would have LOVED to have seen either a heavily stylised 60s looking retro sci-fi flick OR a full-blown WTF Kirk is a woman re-imagining. Somewhere in the middle just didn't cut it. For instance, the Enterprise, the bridge, the effects, the cinematography... all very contemporary... but then they still have the cast running around in Star Fleet pajamas. It's like having Christian Bale running around in Adam West's Bat-costume in Batman Begins (complete with Dananananananana BATMAN! music over the end credits).
 
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