When SHOULD Riker have left?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Angry Fanboy, Jun 6, 2020.

  1. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We already knew of species that were, or had been vastly superior to the Federation (take the Q, or the Iconians or the T' Kon for example), and they'd already run into hostile species, too (those parasites from Season 1). Taken together with the vastness of the unexplored areas of the galaxy, it would just seem a matter of time before they'd encounter a species that combined those two attributes. And that's just based on the encounters of the enterprise-D till that point in time, and not even including all those of the original Enterprise, so one could ask himself why Starfleet was so optimistic and perhaps almost naive about this up until that point in time.

    Well, perhaps I was just making a joke there. That being said, you still can argue about how smart it was (in-universe) to send a large luxury liner filled with civilians sailing into the unknown (see also the first point) but there have been threads in the past discussing this question in depth.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  2. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How did they obtain a video of that in order for Riker to watch it?
     
  3. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually I vaguely wondered about that, too when rewatching it recently. Just assuming they have built-in recording devices in their commbadges or some such thing.
     
  4. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    That seems likely.

    LEYTON: Ironic, isn't it? When you came on board the Okinawa, you were more interested in engineering and ship design than command. But I promoted you to lieutenant commander, gave you the post of executive officer, and taught you everything I knew about being a leader.
    SISKO: You were a good teacher.


    So we only have canon that credits Leyton with promoting Sisko to Lieutenant Commander and XO of the Okinawa (presumably he was Chief Engineer or Operations Manager before that), starting his journey to CO of DS9 rather than organising the end result.
     
  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It may have been inevitable that the Feds would eventually find a race that was both more technologically advanced and would immediately set their sets upon the Federation when made aware of its existence, but I'm not sure that such a thing had actually happened since the Klingon and/or Romulan Wars?
     
  6. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's kind of what had me thinking that Sisko sort of boxed himself into the command track after taking Leyton's promotion to XO. So, when he ended up with down time after the Fleet Yard Defiant project those were the only spots they considered him for

    I don't see why he couldn't have switched tracks though, maybe went back into engineering. I mean Laforge held the rank of commander in his role as Chief Engineer. Maybe Ben hadn't actually advanced to that level, to be considered for someone's chief engineer spot?

    The only time I ever recall anyone taking a rank reduction to switch fields was O'Brien, & I'm not even sure at all wtf happened there lol

    But it seems like DS9 was a posting commensurate with Ben's current career track, & maybe there just wasn't much out there for the likes of him. I suppose if Will had gotten off his butt & became a captain, he might've made way for Sisko go & become Picard's XO :guffaw:
     
  7. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    <First Contact>
    PICARD: This is Captain Picard of the Enterprise. I am taking command of the fleet. Target all of your weapons onto the following coordinates. ...Fire on my command.
    SISKO: <ice cold glare> And you're absolutely certain, they're holding no female civilian at that location, Sir?

    Nah, not sure that combination would have worked out smoothly :)

    I'm sure they met races that could have fit the profile (e.g. the Kelvans, although you could argue they were just trying to survive). Or if they didn't meet entire races, they certainly met evidence of such. After all, someone must have built that Doomsday Machine (Though of course that could have simply been an experiment horribly gone wrong). Or think of the V' ger probe, or the whale probe that, while not necessarily explicitly hostile would have had no compunctions about destroying Earth. They were all essentially built by alien civilizations. It's just that up until that point in the series the threat always could be ended by a genius tactical trick of Kirk exploiting a loophole within that same episode. But then again, even the Borg (partially) met that fate, just not within the same episode (when they were put to sleep in BOBW, and one could argue that what happened to them in Endgame was also a taste of that medicine). So the only real difference I can find between the Borg and those other threats on that score is simply that the threat was not contained within a single episode. But yes, I agree that it changed the "taste" of the series, having a threat that would not be dealt with within 45 minutes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  8. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Would have come in handy when Riker was being framed for murder of the scientist, or lot's of other times.
    Picard: I am absolutely certain that there are civilians on Earth Mr. Sisko, do try to remember your duty.
     
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  9. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Perhaps they're not recording in their standard mode of operation. Riker had no inkling of anything being wrong until he had beamed off the station, IIRC. On the other hand, Picard &Crew would have suspected something was very wrong the moment Q started pulling his tricks and could certainly have activated them the moment they were transported to the post-atomic horror court.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  10. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Commodore

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    Smart or not, those who were on starships flying around made that choise and to take those risks.
    Children obviously didn't but their parents decided for them.
    I cant believe no one is paid. There must be somekind of payment for hazardous work.
    I wouldn't risk everything just to work on a starship for free.
    But that's a thing for another topic.
     
  11. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    Honestly, the simplest explanation of the O'Brien issue is wardrobe department errors/disinterest in s1-3 as with the exception of a single throway "Lieutenant" by Riker (not present in the st-minutiae version of the script), there is no reference to O'Brien as a Lieutenant prior to him to a specifically scripted reference to him being a Chief Petty Officer in Family. It's a matter of taste whether you would prefer that he would always have worn the black pip on the service and dress uniforms (indeed he wears the black pip on a dress uniform after the introduction of the grey NCO patch), or whether he "actually" wore two silver rather than two gold pips and perhaps the silver badge worn by Acting Ensign Crusher (similar to Patrol Officers wearing silver shields vs the gold shields of Detectives and Senior Officers).
     
  12. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was more referring to Miles serving as Ben Maxwell's tactical officer at some time before Farpoint. All uniform nonsense aside, because of that bit of history, I always felt like he had been a legit officer at some point, leaving Starfleet after the war, but it was still the best place for a guy with his skills, so he came back, but in a minor type way, as a chief petty officer
     
  13. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    It depends what role that a Tactical Officer is required to fill:

    The simple is that they should have said he was a tactical officer on the Rutledge (and the most skilled), rather than the Tactical Officer. On the other hand:

    If a tactical officer only needs to be the duty "button pusher" on the Bridge, then it's roughly equivalent to the Navy Gunner's Mate rating (possibly with Fire Controlman/Control Technican and Missile Technican) so could be held by as little as a rated Crewman (E2 or E3), although the Leading Tactical Officer, as the line manager for the Armory team would probably be at least a (Leading) Petty Officer (~E6).

    On the other hand, if the (Chief) Tactical Officer is always a ranking officer (4th to 1st Officer), then obviously the post holder would need to be at least a Provisional/Acting Lieutenant, even if most of the ranking officers were killed, injured or missing.
     
  14. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maxwell made it seem like Miles was an indispensable component of his overall tactical platform during wartime, calling him the best he ever had, & able to remarkably size up situations instantly, & come up with options to fit all contingencies. That doesn't sound like someone who'd be just a garden variety button pusher
     
  15. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe Miles resigned his commission after the Cardassian war and later came back as an NCO in engineering as it is a less military role than tactical.

    As for rank in star trek I always found it very confusing as almost everyone seemed to be at least an ensign and outside of O'Brien we saw very few regularcrewmen
     
  16. Takeru

    Takeru Space Police Commodore

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    In that case I don't think they would have created a new character for Ops, they would have put an extra there like they did at the conn when Wil Wheaton left or maybe they would have removed the station altogether having just the pilot in the front. With Data as first officer he still could have done all the exposition and science dialog Data always had, or maybe split it with Deanna, have her answer Picard's usual "What do we know about this planet/species/phenomenon?" questions with her looking up information about previous encounters and Data scanning and oberserving the current situation. That would have given both officers at Picard's side more to do.

    I would have liked a new security chief, a woman again, maybe bolian?
     
  17. Ghrakh

    Ghrakh Captain Captain

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    "TNG sucked because everyone was perfect. Riker sucked because he wasn't perfect."
     
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  18. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If Jellico and Picard's reports on Riker were contradictory, Starfleet might conclude that Riker works well as Picard's XO, but isn't suited to any other role.
     
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