When did the Federation outlaw genetic engineering

[Gotham Central]

There seems to be some contradictory evidence that eugenics is illegal in the Federation. Unnatural selection clearly shows federation citizens conducting eugenics. In "Masterpiece Society" Picard was more concerned about undermining the integrity of the colony than the fact that we was introducing genetic supermen into Federation society.

So one wonders when the Federation introduced the flat prohibition of eugenics?

 

[Aquehonga]

Dunnough!?!?

The UFP is highly over-rated anyway.

Kind of a dumb irrational ban if you ask me.

Yet another retarded Fed move, like their asinine agreement with the s over cloaks

The UFP's a horde of self-righteous do-gooders spewing fortune cookie wisdom off a soapbox & live by a cliched ABC After-School Special mentality.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

It was probably heavily regulated after all those Eugenics Wars when the genetic supermen tried to take over the world and whatnot (remember the 1990s???)

 

[Aquehonga]

Bill Clinton was a genetic superman

 

[Count Zero]

Well, in ENT it was already outlawed on Earth, apparently shortly after the Eugenics Wars. So, it stands to reason that it was banned in the Federation from the day it was founded. However, there are some inconsistencies in TNG episodes because the strict ban was only thought up later as a part of Bashir's story line.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

Bill Clinton was a genetic superman

haha you can't see it? the writing's on the wall...

 

[miraclefan]

Bill Clinton was a genetic superman

haha you can't see it? the writing's on the wall...

Don't you mean, ''The writing's on the dress''

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

well, something's on the dress, to be sure

apologies for steering this thread off track

 

[kythe]

The ban on genetic engineering must be a pretty detailed document defining exactly what they mean, not just a simple statement that it isn't allowed. For instance, Spock was genetically engineered and I'm sure that could be said of any other hybrid people. That is allowed. And would they allow a bit of tweaking to eliminate naturally occurring birth defects?

I completely understand and agree with the ban on creating "genetic supermen" but realistically, where do they draw the line?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Kind of a dumb irrational ban if you ask me.

No it isn't. Anyone who thinks this likely fails to see the big picture.

 

[Timo]

So one wonders when the Federation introduced the flat prohibition of eugenics?

Dunno - sometime after ST:NEM, perhaps?

I mean, there's no evidence of a "flat ban" in those instalments of Trek that we actually saw. All we get is the supposed rule against producing supermen - a rule that first finds expression in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume", a case where a superman of sorts has indeed been produced.

Now, one would think that what was done at the Darwin Genetic Research Station in "Unnatural Selection" would be against the ban, too, since the results were supermen. But that was in controlled laboratory conditions. We never hear there would be a ban on genetic research. All we hear is that the UFP doesn't allow for unregulated application of that research on the average Joe or Jane.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Crewman47]

The ban on genetic engineering must be a pretty detailed document defining exactly what they mean, not just a simple statement that it isn't allowed. For instance, Spock was genetically engineered and I'm sure that could be said of any other hybrid people. That is allowed. And would they allow a bit of tweaking to eliminate naturally occurring birth defects?

I completely understand and agree with the ban on creating "genetic supermen" but realistically, where do they draw the line?

/\ I agree with this as I just reading up on Bashir entry on Memory Alpha where it says that when he was young he had problems with keeping up with children his own and was mentally slow at learning, just like a lot of people are today. You'd think that by the 24th century there'd be a legal medical procedure that would cure any mental deficiences that are found in Human children that wouldn't come under the Genetic Engineering law as it's basically fixing a flaw in someones genes not improving them.

 

[Sci]

There seems to be some contradictory evidence that eugenics is illegal in the Federation. Unnatural selection clearly shows federation citizens conducting eugenics. In "Masterpiece Society" Picard was more concerned about undermining the integrity of the colony than the fact that we was introducing genetic supermen into Federation society.

So one wonders when the Federation introduced the flat prohibition of eugenics?

"Dr. Bashir, I Presume?" firmly establishes that the ban existed at least as far back as Julian Bashir's childhood in the 2340s, and ENT's Augments arc seems to imply that the Federation essentially inherited United Earth's ban on genetic engineering. It's a ret-con, pure and simple. The novel The Buried Age by Christopher L. Bennett reconciles the issue in passing by mentioning that the colony in "The Masterpiece Society" had been given special dispensation by the Federation government to engage in genetic engineering.

 

[Gotham Central]

So one wonders when the Federation introduced the flat prohibition of eugenics?

Dunno - sometime after ST:NEM, perhaps?

I mean, there's no evidence of a "flat ban" in those instalments of Trek that we actually saw. All we get is the supposed rule against producing supermen - a rule that first finds expression in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume", a case where a superman of sorts has indeed been produced.

Now, one would think that what was done at the Darwin Genetic Research Station in "Unnatural Selection" would be against the ban, too, since the results were supermen. But that was in controlled laboratory conditions. We never hear there would be a ban on genetic research. All we hear is that the UFP doesn't allow for unregulated application of that research on the average Joe or Jane.

Timo Saloniemi

Actually, the situation in Unnatural Selection was even worse since it produced augments who's very existance, no matter how benign, proved lethal to normal humans.

 

[miraclefan]

^REALLY? man it's been a LOOONGGG time sence I saw that episode! I barely remember anything about it!

 

[miraclefan]

So one wonders when the Federation introduced the flat prohibition of eugenics?

Dunno - sometime after ST:NEM, perhaps?

Timo Saloniemi

After ST:NEM? the ban was already there in earth law before even ST:ENTERPRISE!

 

[Aquehonga]

Kind of a dumb irrational ban if you ask me.

No it isn't. Anyone who thinks this likely fails to see the big picture.

What Big Picture might that be?

Perhaps Arnold Layne could tell us.

 

[Timo]

You seem to be overstating the case here...

In "Dr. Bashir, I Presume" the supposed "flat ban on eugenics" is described thusly:

"DNA resequencing for any reason other than repairing serious birth defects is illegal. Any genetically enhanced human being is barred from serving in Starfleet or practicing medicine."

That's the long and short of it, as far as we know - even though the long of it is likely to be much, much longer outside our limited access to evidence. Here, the first half of the ban is on a specific technique, not on eugenics as such. And the second half doesn't ban supermen, it only prevents them from holding specific positions.

I could easily see the above law being consistent with "Unnatural Selection" in that research is perfectly allowable, even when application is not.

What "Cold Station 12" has to say on the subject is that Earth did indeed ban genetic engineering of apparently all sorts - resulting e.g. in the death of Archer's father. However, that ban might easily have been declared unconstitutional once the UFP was founded. Phlox and the Denobulans practice genetic engineering at the time, at any rate, as stated in "Borderland"; humans might have to yield to the will of the majority there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CorporalClegg]

Perhaps Arnold Layne could tell us.

Was that supposed to be funny?

 

[Aquehonga]

Perhaps Arnold Layne could tell us.

Was that supposed to be funny?

Where would the humor be in that shameless, & sophomoric, namedropping of mine?

I'n not being sarcastic, I was just namedropping as I noticed your TrekBBS moniker.

Name dropping is obnoxious. I couldn't resist the splurge.

My bad



I still say Fed's ban on this stuff reeks of a neurotic stupidstitious OCD-like mentality.

ST takes itself way too seriously sometimes. To an absurd, obsessive & pathological degree,