What's the worst non-canon decision in the history of Trek?

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by F. King Daniel, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That used to be my preferred explanation, but TNG: "New Ground" explicitly gave Alexander's birthdate as stardate 43205, which puts it simultaneous with "Booby Trap" in early season 3. I guess you could ignore that reference, though.

    It's also hard to reconcile with "The Emissary"'s dialogue indicating pretty clearly that Worf and K'Ehleyr never slept together until then.
     
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  2. ThetaSigma

    ThetaSigma Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Moving on I’ve just read the end of Star Trek Vanguard and I think they took it too far to the point Starfleet wasn’t really Starfleet, sounded more like the US military or any other generic space military to the point they were practically drooling over the prospect of destroying planets. Really was disgusting, let alone the JAG officer refusing to rule blatant illegal orders as such or a Starfleet Admiral ordering an officer to murder a Federation citizen
     
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  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Like it or not, Starfleet is a military, a fact the novels have always acknowledged despite the weird claim to the contrary the Berman era shows tried insist on. And Starfleet has always been obviously based on the US military, even when paradoxically claiming not to be a military.
     
  4. youngtrek

    youngtrek Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    “Worst non-canon decision in the history of Trek?”

    None of the Pocket/Gallery/Simon & Schuster Star Trek novel editors hiring Keith R.A. DeCandido (@KRAD) to write any more Star Trek novels since 2009(!)

    —David Young
     
  5. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

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    One of the worst non-canon decisions was to let Michael A. Martin write Star Trek: Titan: Fallen Gods. It was so awful that all of the unanswered questions never did get answered because it was treated like it never existed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
  6. KRAD

    KRAD Keith R.A. DeCandido Admiral

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    JWolf: Huh? First off, Martin co-wrote Taking Wing with Andy Mangels, secondly, it was the first book in the Titan series, it answered plenty of questions, and was carefully followed and acknowledged by, like, every single book in the Titan series after that.
     
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  7. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    I assume JWolf is thinking of "Fallen Gods."
     
  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Kind of embarrassing to make a passionate post like that and then get the title of the book wrong.
     
  9. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

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    Yes I did get the title incorrect. I probably copied the wrong title. Anyway, it's fixed.
     
  10. Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs

    Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs Commodore Commodore

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    I wasn't a huge fan of that book either, but it's not really the books fault no one decided to bring up The Transporter Clones until the end of the universe. I was, however, a big fan of us waving the flag of the Transporter Clones story thread all the way to the bitter end.
     
  11. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Here we go again...
     
  12. ThetaSigma

    ThetaSigma Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Okay been away, Starfleet is not solely military it has military responsibilities but it’s primary purpose is scientific exploration and peacekeeping. It’s a tightrope to walk, Vanguard took it too far to the point where as I stated they’re salivating over the prospect of planet killers and flat out ordering the murder of Federation citizens, maybe it’s a reflection of the Bush years but it’s disgusting and too far for anything approaching Starfleet.
     
  13. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe they lost a war somewhere and can't call it a military because of that?
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Those are among the responsibilities of many militaries in real life. A military is an armed force with a rank structure and a military-style organization and discipline, regardless of the types of mission it undertakes. The Army Corps of Engineers is military. The US Coast Guard is military. The Japan Self-Defense Forces, which are forbidden by law from waging war, are military. You don't have to engage in combat to be a military. Militaries have many peacetime, non-combat duties, including science, exploration, peacekeeping, rescue, engineering, and diplomacy. Real militaries do everything that Starfleet does. Yes, Starfleet only wages war in self-defense, but so do many militaries, at least in principle.

    Starfleet is organized like the Navy. It has ranks and regulations and courts-martial. Everything about it is military. It's just a military whose primary duties are non-aggressive, like the JSDF, or like the US military in peacetime. Saying it isn't a military because it doesn't wage aggressive war is profoundly oversimplifying what militaries are and what they do.


    That's what happened to Japan, but the JSDF is still a military. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces
     
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  15. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Scientific exploration and peacekeeping are tasks that have been handled by militaries, historically speaking. Also, it's a bit inaccurate to call these Starfleet's primary purpose over military responsibilities. If that were true, Starfleet would be able to neglect defense over scientific pursuits. And I guarantee, never are you going to see a situation where the Borg or the Dominion are barreling down and Starfleet's attitude is "not dealing with that today. Today we're exploring."

    Regardless, the Argument about whether Starfleet is or is not a military is never going to be satisfactorily resolved, and this is not the thread to do so. The relevant facts to this discussion is that the novels have always acknowledged Starfleet is a military, so it should come as no surprise the Vanguard series, as a novel series is going to follow suit with all the other novels that came before or after. Likewise, the whole "Starfleet isn't military" thing didn't officially start until the 80s anyway as a means for Roddenberry to launch a smear campaign against Nick Meyer after he was removed from authority over the movies. TOS did very much depict Starfleet as a military to the point that Kirk even calls himself a soldier and humanity is referred to as a race of conquerors in The Conscience of the King. Again, since Vanguard is set in the TOS timeframe, it should not come as any surprise to see they are taking that particular interpretation of Starfleet and the Federation as originally laid out in TOS.
     
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  16. ThetaSigma

    ThetaSigma Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I
    I see no one is actually mentioning my specific complaints about those novels just starting the general military debate.

    Oh and by the way @Christopher just reading Ex Machina now, fantastic book love what you’re doing the the trio.
     
  17. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    The "Is Starfleet A Military?" thing may have finally been answered by, of all things, Lower Decks, whose third season promos have featured Mariner referring to Starfleet as having military courts.
     
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  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    By that standard, the question was answered as soon as "The Menagerie" aired in 1966, because another term for "military court" is "court martial."
     
  19. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I keep pointing that out and people keep arguing that they didn't actually use the word "military." *shrug*
     
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  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    What's another word for "synonym?"
     
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