What's the worst non-canon decision in the history of Trek?

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by F. King Daniel, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Lets face it, that's what the novels are for. Explaining away things no one else cares about in the original fanatical fandom. :)
     
  2. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Rear Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 1999
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    Could be a standard part of the tour, other sights being Astrometrics, a cargo bay, a transporter room, maybe the observation lounge, etc.

    Perhaps the Bridge and Engineering are off limits for security purposes. We have (had) a public tour at our head office which incorporates several parts of the building including gawking at people doinn their jobs. Doesn't include the more exciting places like equipment rooms though.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    Why wouldn't the dolphins want to be seen, anyway? If people can see in, the dolphins can see out; they wouldn't want to be isolated, would they?
     
    Charles Phipps likes this.
  4. ThetaSigma

    ThetaSigma Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 13, 2022
    Yes but they wanted to get Kira together with Dukat until Visitor stopped them so, just because they pitched it a well doesn’t make it a good idea, it’s still a bad one that doesn’t jell with the character at all.
     
  5. ThetaSigma

    ThetaSigma Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 13, 2022
    So, yeah Vedek Kira and what they did with Sisko post Destiny are some if the worst character wise.

    I’d add this quote from Coda
    From Worf to mirror K’Ehleyr, because no, just fuck no! The love of Worf’s life is Jadzia and will fight Mr Mack over that and the stupid little love story plot they got in Coda
     
    Mr. Laser Beam and Paul Weaver like this.
  6. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Location:
    South Pennsyltucky
    I don't have an opinion on who Worf's "love of my life" is. He's had so much tragedy in his life that that, when he's confronted with the alt-universe doppelganger of someone he loved and lost under tragic circumstances, of course he's going to express feelings that come from the stored up memories and regrets and imagined conversations he's held onto for years. Is K'Eheyr his "true love"? I have no idea. But in that moment, in those circumstances, she was. That was Worf's emotional truth in that moment, and that's what matters.
     
    Markonian, Sci, nightwind1 and 3 others like this.
  7. theta_campanile

    theta_campanile Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2022
    The love of Worf's life is prune juice surely?
     
  8. ThetaSigma

    ThetaSigma Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 13, 2022
    Personally that part makes me seethe and feels like an insult to Micheal Dorn, Terry Farrell and every writer for the last thirty years who worked to develop the character. I mean come on they had a fling twenty years ago in universe, thirty out of it. The relationship between Jadzia and Worf was an actual RELATIONSHIP rather than a fling and it was written because of how Dorn and Farrell interacted on and off set. That for me is the problem with that hole but it feels dishonest to the character and an insult to everyone who progressed his character since the days he was little more than the “Klingons do not…”
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Former Democrat Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Covington, Ky. USA
    Worst decision? Getting rid of the Borg.
     
    WarpTenLizard likes this.
  10. theta_campanile

    theta_campanile Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2022
    I think this is a great point but honestly
    just invites unnecessary competition. Like you say, of course Worf is going to have feelings for K'Ehleyr. She's not only the one who got away but he mourns her deeply. It doesn't have to be I love you the mostest out of everyone, but just I love you between complex people, if that makes sense?
     
    TheAlmanac and Greg Cox like this.
  11. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Location:
    Sol III, Sector 001, 2063 C.E.
    stares

    Uh, what??!!!
     
  12. hbquikcomjamesl

    hbquikcomjamesl Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    :wtf::crazy::wtf::eek::wtf::ack::wtf:
     
    theta_campanile likes this.
  13. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    IIRC, what he suggested was that the Borg would be interested in “the planet of living machines” that repaired V’ger, not that it was repaired on the Borg Homeworld.
     
    Markonian and theta_campanile like this.
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    She's definitely his first love, and first loves have a way of overshadowing all other loves.
     
  15. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    No, it isn't. I doubt they care enough to be insulted.

    Source please.
     
    fireproof78 likes this.
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    No, I actually think Jadzia was the greatest love of Worf's life. He was more at ease with her than he ever was with K'Ehleyr.

    Plus, Jadzia was more into him than K'Ehleyr ever was. I don't think K'Ehleyr was ever interested in a long term relationship with Worf; they just had a fling, had Alexander, and then she died. Jadzia, OTOH, was totally into Worf from the get-go.

    I see Worf's relationship with K'Ehleyr as a product of his "I have to be more Klingon than Klingons" phase. He felt a tremendous amount of pressure to conform to Klingon norms, so naturally he seeks out a Klingon woman.

    I mean, I don't doubt that Worf genuinely loved K'Ehleyr and I certainly think his rage and grief at her death were genuine...but in the long run, Jadzia was his greatest love. By the time they met, Worf had had a lot of time to figure out who he is, and what he valued in a mate...and Jadzia turned out to be the perfect choice.

    Simply put, Worf and K'Ehleyr were too much alike. It took somebody like Jadzia, who was very different from him, to bring out the best in Worf.
     
  17. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    I think that's probably ranking and matching things too much. I always had the view that instead of Alexander having a superhuman (klingon) growth spurt, K'Ehleyr and he had a child that just wasn't mentioned in their first episode. They didn't work out and he was raised by his mother until, well, she died.

    PArt of the humor is Worf is SUPER-INTO being a Klingon while K'Ehleyr treats them like unruly children.

    They already had broken up. They were never going to work but that doesn't undermine their feelings.
     
  18. ThetaSigma

    ThetaSigma Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 13, 2022
    In the What you left behind documentary they bring it up, the writers thought of it and Nana Visitor was against it so it became her mother
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  19. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Not only that, but there's always this place that your first love is going to hold in your heart, separate from all others, no matter how true or great those successive loves will be. Nothing diminishes Worf's love for Jadzia in calling K'Ehleyr the greatest love of his life, especially when you remember all the romantic notions that Worf carries, due to his attitudes with regards to Klingon legends and myth. K'Ehleyr is the love he had with all of things stacked against them - she's his first love, K'Ehleyr herself was uninterested in a relationship with the significance that Worf was proposing their first time together, and then, when she was ready, Worf couldn't accept her because of his discommodation, making him deny her offer of the Oath and accepting Alexander, until her brutal murder by Duras, the family who his own had been in blood feud with for ages. With the Right of Vengeance, which, despite his discommodation, he was still allowed to call for, he slew Duras.

    Tell "the Tale of Worf" as an opera, you could easily get a full act out of that, and this is before we even reach the rest of his impact upon the Klingon Empire as a whole. As much as I love Worf and Jadzia, their relationship did not come with those epic aspects involved in it. That's not to say it's not important for Worf, but his relationship with Jadzia did not come with the sweeping stakes and grand movements - it's a different love, not a lesser love.

    To say nothing of the difference of who Worf was at the time he had both of these loves - there's roughly a decade between his relationship with K'Ehleyr and his relationship with Jadzia. He's grown, matured, changed, evolved in that time. The Worf who fell in love with K'Ehleyr is not the same man who fell in love with Jadzia - he's been through things that have aged and tempered him. The man you are in your twenties has different ideas about life and love than the man you are in your thirties. The twenty year old still carries some of those romantic notions of childhood, the idea that there is one singular individual out there in the wide world for you. The thirty year old knows that people change over time, and love fades and can spark anew. Your first love is always held a little apart from the rest of the loves in your life, because that is the first time you've known these feelings, and before you really know that every time you love, it will be different.

    It's not a competition. I mean, hell, I imagine that, after Worf's death, he goes to the proverbial bar in Sto-Vo-Kor and finds K'Ehleyr and Jadzia kicking back shots and telling tales to each other, not being jealous or anything of the sort with regards to Worf's feelings for them.
     
    Allyn Gibson likes this.
  20. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    The guy was
    about to die
    and nobody wants to be alone when that happens. I never gave it much more thought than that, since nobody else he was close to or interested in was available or alive.